[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

Friends,
The State Fair of Texas is currently in session, and on the fairgrounds is the Texas Hall of State, an exhibition hall displaying various artifacts related to state history. Among the objects I saw while visiting was a gun labelled "Davy Crockett's Derringer pistol." I've transcribed the full label at the bottom of this page of derringers: http://www.forensicfashion.com/1881WesternGamblerDerringer.html .



Davy Crockett of course was killed at the battle of the Alamo in 1836. However, I understand that derringers in general weren't produced until the 1850s, and even percussion caplocks -- such as the one on this gun -- weren't made until the 1840s. I suspect, then, that this attribution is false, and the gun has nothing to do with Davy Crockett. Still, millions of State Fair visitors will be passing through and seeing this exhibit, and I doubt anything I say would persuade the curators to change what probably is just another Texas tall tale.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts about this -- about both the authenticity of the gun, and its promotion at a very popular public event. Thanks, r

[Terry Thompson]

It looks very similar to John Wilkes Booth philadelphia Derringer that he used to shoot Lincoln.

This could be evidence that Davy Crockett was a time traveling zombie. The fact that he has a derringer 10 years before Derringer went into business and then after his own death collaborated with Booth to assassinate Lincoln using a technology that was invented 2 years before his own death. Brilliant! The perfect alibi!

Here's a report of it being stolen and recovered back in 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8svt4IA2WaU

What's further more interesting is that the original plaque clamins that Davy Crockett captured it from the body of a Mexican soldier at the battle of San Jacinto. Maybe the Mexican regulars had time machines.

[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

You know, there's a persistent local belief that John Wilkes booth escaped capture after Lincoln's assassination and lived out his remaining years here in Texas as "John St. Helen" of Granbury. If he both escaped to Texas AND traveled back in time with another derringer (assuming Davy Crockett's identity in the process), that would explain both mysteries...

PS: Where is the Booth derringer on display?

[Lin Robinson]

Not so fast there guys. Deringer made his first pocket pistols in 1830 so this could have been around for Davy to use. However, it does look like a more recent model.

[Terry Thompson]

Sorry for the derail. I didn't realize Deringer had produced percussion caps so early (according to something I read earlier tonight, he was using percussion media and making percussion caps on dueling pistos in the mid 1820's!)

The Booth pistol is supposedly still on display at the Ford's Theatre National Historic Site Museum. The pic I posted is from their facebook page.

[Ralph Grinly]

If I recall..Crocket was a US Senator in the late 1820's, early 1830's - it's quite possible that, as a fairly prominent citizen he could have purchased, or been presented with one of Deringer's earlier precussion models that were starting to be produced around that period. Whether or not *THAT* particular pistol on display is his..well that's an unknown. IF it was with him during the battle of the Alamo..I would have expected it to have been looted after the battle..I can't see the mexican army leaving weapons behind for more potential rebels to collect. But if it remained at home with his other possessons..well, it could truely be his. As for the story of the mexican soldier..well..it *is* possible, I suppose..but ..would he have recognised what body he supposedly took pistol from ? Or is it more possible that , whoever he got it from, he 'embellished' the pistols provenance at a later date in order to get a higher price for it ?
Attributing items to one particular historic individual should always be take with a healthy dose of suspicion and skepticism. Especially items that were made on a production line system of many seperate, but nearly identical objects. Only if an un-impeachable trail of evidence connects item A with individual B can we be 99 % sure that they belonged together.

[E.B. Erickson]

Regarding the claim on the original plaque that the pistol was picked off the body of a Mexican soldier at the battle of San Jacinto by Crockett, wasn't San Jacinto fought AFTER the Alamo? Or am I misremembering the chronology?

--ElJay

[Terry Thompson]

Um. Yes. Yes it was. "remember the Alamo" was the battle cry from Houston's forces at San Jacinto.
What a tangled web we weave....when we fail our American history class. I'd really like to know who provenanced that gun, so I can kick him in the shins.

[Ruel A. Macaraeg]

ElJay,
The label seems to be saying that the derringer was taken from Crockett's body at the Alamo by anonymous Mexican soldiers and later recovered [i.e., by Texans] from those Mexicans at San Jacinto, so the chronology appears to be correct.

I'm still absorbing the thought that percussion caps were around so early. They seem to be a much superior technology to the flintlock, so why -- if they were available in the 1820s -- didn't they catch on for several decades? Even by the American Civil War (1860s), flintlocks still hadn't been replaced by caplocks.

[Michael K Wislon]

The Colt Paterson revolver came out that same year(1836). A five shot percussion revolver. Percussion caps were invented about 20 or so years earlier by an English priest that liked to hunt. On the frontier, its easy to find flint on the ground , but not so easy to find percusion caps laying on the ground. Derringer may be used in this context as any generic short barrled , concealable pistol. So while not actually produced by Deringer, that style of pistol did exist in that time period.

Deringer is actually the builder of the gun. But most small easily concealed pistols get called derringer. Notice the extra "R" in derringer as opposed to Deringer. Its kind of like how people call adhesive strip bandages "Band Aid" , Band Aid is a brand name.

[Ryan S.]

There is often a period of time between when a new version comes out and when it is generally adopted. After all electric cars have been around since the 1800s, yet are not generally adopted.

[Lin Robinson]

[Michael K Wislon]

Sorry Lin, was just going off the top of my head.

[William P]

[Glen A Cleeton]

I was remembering this thread while reading another file and figured the readers might like this image, indded the whole file, as it relates to both Philadelphia gunsmiths and swords.
http://asoac.org/bulletins/89_andrews_sword.pdf

Many more good artilces at the ASOAC site
http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/bulletinindex.htm

Cheers

GC