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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Fine Pavise, circa 1480

Housed: Wiener Bürgerliche Zeughaus, Vienna
Published: Das Wiener Bürgerliche Zeughaus
Photo copyright: Unknown


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Pavise, circa 1451-1500

Housed: Germanischen Nationalmuseum, Nuremberg, W974
Photo copyright: Germanischen Nationalmuseum, Nuremberg


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A Bohemian Pavise, circa 1480

Housed: Unknown
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Unknown


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A Bohemian Pavise, Late 15th Century

Housed: National Museum, Prague
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Unknown


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A Bohemian Pavise, circa 1450

Housed: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin


Click for detailed version



A German Pavise, circa 1480-1490

Housed: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin
Published: Unknown
Photo copyright: Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin


Click for detailed version

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Werner Stiegler





Joined: 27 Feb 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm currently going through some old books about arms and armour, and I think this is related to this topic. I believe we still lack even a single picture of a hand pavise.


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Mark Hanna





Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Pavise         Reply with quote

Here is a picture of a hussite pavise I just finished.


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb280/amthanna/pavise1.jpg


Mark
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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

nice mark! can i put the first ding in it this weekend?
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nothing that sawdust and some good woodglue cannot fix, perhaps even wood putty right Big Grin

Mark that does look awesome! Nice work. Got a nice flail to go along with it? I am looking at finding some wood to make a 'war club' for a project in the near future.

I really have enjoyed this post. While everyone focuses much on the armour at Agincourt to Fodden etc. in many accounts the pavaise is listed as one key factor in deflecting/defeating arrows. Clearly this item was viewed as somewhat important by chroniclers and soldiers as well.

Lovely thread.

RPM
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Mark Hanna





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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Didn't quite get the flail done, but I have a pistola to keep Chuck at bay. Still not sure about the border, its a simplified version of a 1440's bohemian pavise. It looks a little more like a manuscript boarder or a nordic sweater. It will have to do for now.

Mark
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David Evans




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PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kel Rekuta wrote:
Jon Cooper wrote:
Just received an Email from the manufacturers saying they based the pavise design on illustrations in a book by Charles Kightly entitled 'Flodden. The Anglo-Scottish War of 1513. published by Almark Publishing Co. Ltd in 1975 - Now all I need to do is track down the books sources !! Anybody have a copy and can shed ligt on Mr Kightly's sources ??


Yeah, its like an Osprey Book, nice pictures little substance. No footnotes, no bibliography. A single page list of sources.
The illustration by Robert Nicholls is on pg 23. Looks more like a Roman scutem than anything else.
#

A word of warning on the Osprey books, from chatting to Charles it appears that the artist consulted Charles a grand total of 0 (zero) times. The pictures are mildy dubious, to be polite..
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Kevin Inouye




Location: Richmond, VA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice!

I remember back when I was on the East Coast studying stage combat with Brad Waller and occasionally David Doersch, we did a sword & Buckler class and someone had a few bucklers that were based on some from Marozzo's Pressas, in a style very obviously evolved from some of those one hand Pavises. Not sure who made 'em though.


Arms & Armor makes one:


I remember liking how you could kinda 'hook' and catch blades with it in a way that round, convex bucklers couldn't.

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are more pavises, from the Historisches Museum der Stadt Wien. From the book Wehrhafte Stadt: Das Wiener Buergerliche Zeughaus im 15. und 16. Jahrhundert.

There are actually probably another 10 pavises pictured in colour in this book (and more in small B&W pics), but these are the best of the bunch.



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Happy

ChadA

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Oleg Naumov




Location: Saint Petersburg
Joined: 02 Feb 2009

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One more pavise shield is here. This is the real example from collection of Artillery museum in St. Petersburg. Visitors are not allowed to take pictures at that particular exhibition. Fortunately I was allowed to take a picture with the cell phone camera. That’s why the quality of that pictures isn’t high.


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Josh Watson





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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I see a lot of good information on dimensions and construction, but I would like to know if anyone knows how much a pavise would weigh, depending on period, of course?
The first step to becoming wise is to know that you know nothing.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out the mega-pavise here. Happy


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ChadA

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some pavises from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Photos by me (sorry!).


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Hand pavise.

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Another pavise

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Pavise

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Pavises in their cases for scale. That sword is about 4 feet long!

Happy

ChadA

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Bjorn Hagstrom




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On the large pavises, there are many examples with central spine and a beak-like projection. Does anyone know what the function of that "beak" would be? I can imagine why the central spine/ridge makes sense, but that little beak makes my brain itch with curiosity...
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F. Carl Holz




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

would dueling shields be a sort of pavise as well?
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Adam O'Byrne





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PostPosted: Fri 13 Mar, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bjorn Hagstrom wrote:
On the large pavises, there are many examples with central spine and a beak-like projection. Does anyone know what the function of that "beak" would be? I can imagine why the central spine/ridge makes sense, but that little beak makes my brain itch with curiosity...


Completely uneducated guess here but it looked to me like the ridge and beak might be some sort of interlocking system to place a third pavise on top of two others to form a ceiling?

In some other pictures ( like the last few in this post ) there are a few specimens with what look like hooks or rings protruding from the top center of the pavise, my first thought when I saw them was if the ring or hook in the center of the top of two separate pavises was used to seat the spikes on either side of the bottom of a third then you could have a more versatile construction block for defense, using it as either a larger vertical wall or possibly angling the top row back to form a roof.

Just brainstorming , I'm not a professor or anything - but I am also interested in these medieval multi tools.
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James Head





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PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Check out the mega-pavise here. Happy


Fantastic illustration. Where did you find this image? Do you know if those are supposed to be Hussites behind the large pavise with the 'bouche' cut out? The chalice painted on the shield and the war flails make me think so.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Head wrote:
Fantastic illustration. Where did you find this image?


I believe it was the old Bruno Thomas book Harnische. The book is in German, so I can't tell you a lot about it. Happy Some neat pictures, though.

Happy

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Vrin Thomas





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PostPosted: Mon 16 Mar, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have heard second (or third) hand that the word Pavise comes from the town of Pavia in Italy and that their cottage industry was the shield. Is there any truth to this?
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Bjorn Hagstrom




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PostPosted: Tue 17 Mar, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Adam O'Byrne wrote:


Completely uneducated guess here but it looked to me like the ridge and beak might be some sort of interlocking system to place a third pavise on top of two others to form a ceiling?

In some other pictures ( like the last few in this post ) there are a few specimens with what look like hooks or rings protruding from the top center of the pavise, my first thought when I saw them was if the ring or hook in the center of the top of two separate pavises was used to seat the spikes on either side of the bottom of a third then you could have a more versatile construction block for defense, using it as either a larger vertical wall or possibly angling the top row back to form a roof.

Just brainstorming , I'm not a professor or anything - but I am also interested in these medieval multi tools.


That is not a bad theory at all. I suppose in a siege situation where the enemy has very high ground it would be a good idea to add a protective layer on top.

Another theory, depending on the height of the pavise, could the beak be there to be a support to aim a crossbow?

There is nothing quite as sad as a one man conga-line...
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