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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Thu 03 Oct, 2013 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Sexy-pinkish grip
This is a joke, of course - pink is the colour of the temporary wrap.
For the leather cover of this complex grip, I decided to make an experiment - to try to form the cover directly over the grip.
So, I cut a simple rectangular piece of leather, soaked it in water and put it around the grip, wrapping it with the cord, BUT without gluing. When the leather was dry again (on the next day), I removed the wrapping, trimmed the leather to the appropriate form and size and glued it, wrapping it again with cord.
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
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Matthew P. Adams
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| Posted: Thu 03 Oct, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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No cord under the leather? While It wouldn't be my choice, I do think it will give a sleek look that matches the rest. Thank you for sharing this process, I can't wait to see the finished product. Are you planning a scabbard?
"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Thu 03 Oct, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Can hardly wait for the bandages to come off. 
| Boris Bedrosov wrote: | For the leather cover of this complex grip, I decided to make an experiment - to try to form the cover directly over the grip.
So, I cut a simple rectangular piece of leather, soaked it in water and put it around the grip, wrapping it with the cord, BUT without gluing. When the leather was dry again (on the next day), I removed the wrapping, trimmed the leather to the appropriate form and size and glued it, wrapping it again with cord. |
Oh my, I really want to hear how that turns out. Could save me a lot of troubles - I suck at cutting the leather to the right shape beforehand.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 04 Oct, 2013 12:27 am Post subject: |
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# Matthew
There is a cord under the leather. Just take a look several posts above - you'll see the grip, wrapped with hemp cord.
I'm planning a scabbard, the work on this will start next week. For now, I contacted JE Sarge (whom I consider far more knowledgeable and experienced than me) with some questions about it, in order to find the style and suspension system, best suiting of this particular sword.
#Mikko
I've already put of the bandages 
Bearing in mind the complex form of the grip and first-time work with this method, the result is satisfactory. There are some flaws, so I must refine this method for future work, but as a whole - it's not a bad idea at all.
And that's it:
Back at the seem.You could clearly see the flaws - some extra leather just behind the rear extension, some uncovered tiny triangular section just behind the guard and the un-even seem.
Finally - a quick shot of the whole sword
I'll provide some better and detailed pictures, as stats and something like short over-view of the handling characteristics also, by the end of this weekend or the beginning of the next week.
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
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Radovan Geist
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| Posted: Fri 04 Oct, 2013 2:32 am Post subject: |
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That is one of my favourite threads and it is heading for a grand finale! 
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Fri 04 Oct, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Beautiful!
FWIW, I've honestly seen worse leatherwork on some historical swords.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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F. Carl Holz
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| Posted: Fri 04 Oct, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely stunning work! It is beautiful, I can't wait to see it with the finished scabbard.
31. And there are some whom everyone should consider to be wise...
-Le Livre de Chevalerie, Geffroi Charny-
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Dean F. Marino
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| Posted: Fri 04 Oct, 2013 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Boris Bedrosov wrote: | ....For the leather cover of this complex grip, I decided to make an experiment - to try to form the cover directly over the grip.
So, I cut a simple rectangular piece of leather, soaked it in water and put it around the grip, wrapping it with the cord, BUT without gluing. When the leather was dry again (on the next day), I removed the wrapping, trimmed the leather to the appropriate form and size and glued it, wrapping it again with cord. |
Having done a number of grip wraps... you MAY have come up with a truly unique way of doing this . The grip is never done until it is down SOLID - but the "cut pattern" is also never square . That initial "how do I cut this" part drives people like me nuts - so I use Brendan's method. YOUR way of doing this looks interesting - I'm going to try it .
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Dean F. Marino
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| Posted: Fri 04 Oct, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Boris Bedrosov wrote: | | # ....Back at the seem.You could clearly see the flaws - some extra leather just behind the rear extension, some uncovered tiny triangular section just behind the guard and the un-even seem...... |
For future projects... Consider moving your seams from one of the grip faces to one of the grip edges....
As you start the wrap. find dead center on the grip edge - mark this well. For JUST this spot? Slowly attach the grip Leather with "Super Glue" - 1/4 inch at a time, to get it DEAD straight.
Majority of work - use the glue of your choice.... BUT: Do not glue the last 1/4 inch as you approach your starting seam.
At seam close time - leave your leather a good 1/2 inch LONGER than you need to hit the initial seam. Wet the area of your seam. Close your eyes . SLOWLY run your fingernail over the leather portion that will "close" on your starting seam. FEELING the edge of the starting seam.with your fingernail. The leather will hold this mark.
SLOWLY cut the excess leather with a very SMALL set of Scissors, on this mark. As you cut about 1/4 inch at a time - SuperGlue this down.
This is not my original method - it was created by Brendan Olszowy of Fable Blades. I read his tutorial, and learned how to do this. Brendan is brilliant - closing a seam this way allows the edges of the seam to adjust themselves - even if the leather stretches a bit differently in different areas...
Example - Brendan's method applied to Lasmithren - one of my builds:
Can you JUST see the seam?
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 05 Oct, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing this method, Dean!
It's good it to be tested someday. This could be useful, even only just as an experience.
I've also considered moving the seem to the grip edge, but at the end it was made on face, as I've done before.
I had some thoughts to make the wrap not from the guard to the pommel as usual, but starting from the middle of the grip to wrap the cord to both ends (guard and pommel). On my opinion, this would help to devide the remaining extra leather relatively equally to both sides.
Who knows - it's possible more than one "true" method to exist. We have just to find the one, best suiting to our own attitude.
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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# Dean,
BTW, I want to clarify something.
As far as I understood, in the method described above by you, the leather DOESN'T overlaps at the seem.
Is this correct?
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
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Dean F. Marino
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Boris Bedrosov wrote: | # Dean,
BTW, I want to clarify something.
As far as I understood, in the method described above by you, the leather DOESN'T overlaps at the seem.
Is this correct? |
Absolutely correct - this is a "butted seam", as opposed to a skived, overlapping seam.
Jus in case you want to try a SKIVED seam - these also work well. The trick to them: Start the wrap about 1/8" GREATER than where you want your seam. Use a dremel, with a fine sanding wheel, and remove about 1/8" of leather on the ROUGH side, about half of the leather thickness.
As you approach the end of the wrap - stop while you have a good 1/2" of wrap to go. Mark the end leather so it overlaps the START leather by about 1/8". Cut. Use the dremel and fine sanding wheel to reduce the thickness of the overlap by about 1/2 the leather thichness on the ROUGH side.
MANY folks use skived seams - and they also work VERY well. The "dremel & sanding drum" trick works better with thin leather than a skiving knife does .
With either seam type - another trick if you use pre-dyed leather: When done, use a QTipp (cotton ear swab) with just a BIT of denatured alcohol on it. Go down the seam length with this - it will cause the dye to run JUST A BIT - enough to "smooth" the dye between the raw edges and the wrapped leather, visually eliminating the "line" caused by a leather edge. This is far less critical if you dye AFTER wrapping.
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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The detailed pictures, promised earlier
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Initially, this should be a part from the previous post, but "Preview Before Posting" button showed me enormous and hard-to-follow post, that's why I split them in two.
And with the sword in hand.... I think, this gives good idea about its proportions
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
Last edited by Boris Bedrosov on Tue 08 Oct, 2013 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lewis Ballard
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Otlichno! (Outstanding.)
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J. Hargis
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Boris:
You look like a man with a purpose. Well done, sir.
Jon
A poorly maintained weapon is likely to belong to an unsafe and careless fighter.
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Eric W. Norenberg
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| Posted: Mon 07 Oct, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Boris, I've been in love with the original of that sword for a couple of years (actually with many of the swords the Zornhau group has documented there... What a great resource!), and have daydreamed about a reproduction. I can't say enough how well your project has turned out! So beautiful. You really hit the proportions and curves of the hilt right on the spot! Well done, Sir! How does it feel in motion?
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Some stats, all in millimeters and grams
(the normal font is for the original http://www.zornhau.de/wordpress/wp-content/up...ZEF07.pdf, the bold one - for my results)
Overall length: 1150 / 1153 mm
Blade length: 897 / 893 mm
Mass: 1250 / 1175 gr
Point of balance: 150 / 134 mm from the guard
Center of percussion: 630 / about 530 mm from the guard
Note: In the data-sheet the blade-length is given as 987 mm. Actually, it's 897 mm, which could be easily checked with simple calculation of the proportions of the sword on the pictures.
Blade width:
* at guard: 45,5 / 45,5 mm
** 1/3 from guard: 35,1 / 35,7 mm
*** 2/3 from guard: 24,1 / 24,2 mm
**** 20 mm from the point: 7,51 / 8,1 mm
Blade thickness:
* at guard: 7,07 / 6,8 mm
** 1/3 from guard: 5,92 / 5,1 mm
*** 2/3 from guard: 5,73 / 5,6 mm
**** 20 mm from the point: 4,5 / 3,5 mm
Well, that's it.
As a whole - not bad replica at all; in some cases I managed to come exactly to the original.
The main mistake - thinner blade is due mostly to wrong technology (I should made the fullers before the profile) and from, I suspect - over-sanding in some cases. The thinner blade itself brought the lighter sword - 75 gr difference in the masses is too big for me.
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
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Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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And the handling characteristics:
(Just bear in mind that I'm not an exceptional fencer - my skills actually are somewhere just under the average level)
The first thing one would see when holding this sword for the first time is how light and balanced it feels - well distributed mass, combined with the long grip is just one of the reasons.
As a result the weapon possesses very good maneuverability and is easily set in motion and quickly recovered. One of the things which impressed me most was exactly this - how I'm able to control the sword, making it to move in the direction where I want it to go. The sword could be used with one hand, though its full potential is only unveiled when gripped with both hands.
Other impressive moment was its ability to deliver the thrusts. The sword penetrates the target without much resistance - in 4 mm of plywood the blade enters to about 120-150 mm, while a car tyre is penetrated to about half-an-inch. And all this is accomplished just by the point, as the edges are not sharpened yet.
Although this sword is a thrust weapon, it could cut when necessary. In such cases it tracks well during the cutting movement. A middle-sized water-melon wasn't any challenge at all, the half-an-inch thick elm branches were the limit of the un-sharpened edges.
Regardless these cutting abilities, the sword definitely is a thruster - an essential representative of the Type XV / XVa group.
"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
Last edited by Boris Bedrosov on Thu 10 Oct, 2013 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Vladimir R.
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| Posted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Boris, i have been following this thread and some of your other work here on myArmoury. This sword is amazing, and generally you put a lot of work into details. If you are interested, one almost the same type XVa sword as this one, from c1466. is kept in Dubrovnik, Marko Aleksić published it in his book "Medieval swords from South Eastern Europe". The sword was a gift to Duke of Ragusa by Hungarian king Mathias Corvinus. Here is the photograph :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...,_1466.jpg
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