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Jojo Zerach





Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posts: 288

PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tyler Simplot wrote:
I was asking about the different armors to see what was what. And i think i would rather have a set of armor that belongs with a great helm than not. So i was asking as much as i could in regards to this. As you all have more knowledge on this subject than i do. Like i said i understand that there are a combat helmet and a flashy helmet(jousting or tourny as you call them) thats why i was talking about both. I dont think im lumping it all into one , maybe but thats why i switched up and started to ask about plate with maille because i assumed that would have been paired in the times before full body plate armor was developed, which would take it to the early 14th century where several posts and threads on here have said the great helm was used. Also the renaissance was between 14 and 17th century so wouldnt the great helm have been used at the begining of it, maybe not by the germans? I guess maybe what you are saying is that the renaissance hasnt happened yet in northern europe in the 14th but it started in Italy in the 14th. I dont mean to have this sound like i have an attitude or anything along those lines. It just seems that there is a bit of contradictory statements or something going on and i do appreciate all help so far as ive already learned alot!

Im going to check out that webpage now and see what i can find on there and can someone then tell me what would the germans have used with the great helm roughly? Even if its not full plate armor i understand they hadnt advanced to the gothic armor yet which is fine since they didnt use the combo of those two anyways.

With Germany, you could probably use a great helm later than in some other areas. The 5 examples I posted above are all early-mid 14th century German, but you could go later into the century if you like.
Different people have different ideas about when the renaissance started/stopped, or if it even really exited at all. It's a nebulous concept with no clear beginning or end. When I hear the term "Italian Renaissance" I generally imagine the period from roughly 1450-1550, but some people see it as the 300 year period from Dante to Galileo.
There were also other renaissances as well, such as the 12th century renaissance.
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Ian S LaSpina




Location: Virginia, US
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu 06 Sep, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effi...lysis.html

This analysis done by Dr. Doug Strong is an excellent graphical illustration of the styles of armor present from 1300 - 1450 in various regions. You can look at the information individually by Germany, France and England, or look at them all together. It only represents how 'effigies' were shifting at the time. That's important to note, because effigies dated to a certain time are not necessarily representative of the exact time they were commissioned, and there are several other factors to consider, but they're a good rough estimate.

More importantly, you can see the trends, like leg armor going from maille -> schynbalds -> cased greaves over time... or chest protection going from maille -> coat of plates -> globose breast plates etc...

It's worth a look to see who was wearing what, and when Happy

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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,523

PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i think i can safely say the age of the great helm for the battlefield was the 13th century, that was its MAIN era of use by the END of the 13th century and very early 14th we did see (in england at least, which i realise isnt teutonic) the great/ sugarloaf helm with early forms of solid defenses such as proto-forms of the coat of plates and the rare example of cuir bolli (hardened, boiled leather) solid pieces for various body parts here and there have been found around western europe,

if you want to be really safe in the knowledge as to what was allowable with great helms, 13th century is the way to go around the latter end of the 13th century though we see the adoption of some levels of plate defences for the body and limbs, mostly in the forms of gutter shaped plates and very simple elbow and knee cops attached either to gamboised cuisses or to maile leggings
my understanding is that the appearance of solid defenses for the body and limbs appeared in reasonable abundance around the last decades of the 13th century.
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Tyler Simplot




Location: WI
Joined: 04 Sep 2012

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

1330s are looking interesting with above information. Can anybody point me towards breast plates rounded?COP from the 1330s or early 1300s that are german designed.
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Jojo Zerach





Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posts: 288

PostPosted: Fri 07 Sep, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tyler Simplot wrote:
1330s are looking interesting with above information. Can anybody point me towards breast plates rounded?COP from the 1330s or early 1300s that are german designed.

You generally won't find breastplates in the 1330's, those become more common from about 1350 on. In the 1330's you generally have various styles of coat-of-plates.
This one here seems to be a largely German style, with the plates on the outside:
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/otto_...194/large/
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