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Ahmad Tabari
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 Posted: Fri 24 Aug, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I see. Yes I agree some form of soft armour or thick clothing under the mail is necessary to minimize the level of penetration
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Eric S
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | A lot of historical mail though has smaller rings than what you usually see today. I know that was an antique piece, of course there is variation. Your avatar says you live in New Orleans, if you do there is a gallery on Royal Street in the French Quarter, near canal, called Whisnant gallery
I don't know if it's still there but last time I was there a year or two ago they had a Turkish or possibly Persian Bakhterets panoply in there which had very small links, I think too small for even a bodkin point arrow to penetrate without breaking a link, maybe you can have a look and see what I mean. A lot of antique European mail is like that too, quite small links. By no means all, of course.
J |
Jean, the armor I used was the same type as you mentioned that was in Whisnant gallery in New Orleans which by the way is out of business or will be this month, and I had a chance to examine and photograph it. In the armor I used for my photograph there are two sizes of links used in its construction, larger links on the upper important body areas and smaller links in the lower areas, the picture I took was from the fore arm which has the smaller links.
Here is the Indo-Persian armor from Whisnant gallery in New Orleans, below it is the one I used. These armors were supposedly taken by Anup Singh Maharaja of Bikaneer, a General in the Mughal Emperor Aurangzebs army who defeated the last defender of the Adil Shai Dynasty of Bijapur, at the Seige of Adoni in 1689. A whole series of these armours were taken to Bikineer as war booty.
Here is the armor I used.
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Eric S
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a Indo-Persian riveted mail hood, you can see the quilted padding used in it, that should give some idea on how thick the padding of other Eastern armors may have been.
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Would be better if there was an example of body armour with under padding. Helmet padding seems to have been thicker than padding for the rest of the armour.
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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What do you think the inside diameter of those rings are ? 6mm? More?
I heard they were closing, I need to go down there tomorrow and take some photos, it's a real shame, sad to see them go. So much cool stuff in there, and not enough classy places like that left in the quarter any more.
It seems like there is a textile component in that Mughal armor, at least on the upper body. Maybe if I go there tomorrow I'll measure it.
J
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Eric S
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | What do you think the inside diameter of those rings are ? 6mm? More?
I heard they were closing, I need to go down there tomorrow and take some photos, it's a real shame, sad to see them go. So much cool stuff in there, and not enough classy places like that left in the quarter any more.
It seems like there is a textile component in that Mughal armor, at least on the upper body. Maybe if I go there tomorrow I'll measure it.
J |
Jean, I had the same thought, they were one old time armor and weapons shops in the US. The armor I pictured is now sold and I was not able to take any photos of the lining but you can see its shape under the armor if you look and at the front how it gets thicker, basically the same type of padding as the hood.
Dan, I have searched through hundreds of period drawings and prints and very few show any armor being worn and then its usually arm guards (dastana/bazu band) or shin guards.I have read that the armors were lined with quilted padding originally and that clothing was worn on top, in fact I read a period statement about ottoman soldiers wearing armor under their clothing, but I have never seen any photos or drawing of what the padding actually looked like or what parts of the armor it covered.
I did find one Indian photo that shows armor being worn and also a photo of a thick padded Indian gown as an example of what type of clothing may have been used.
The attendants of the Sumptha Raja 1873.
Indian padded gown (kurtha/kurta) for men, late 1800's to early 1900's
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Eric S
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| Posted: Sun 26 Aug, 2012 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | What do you think the inside diameter of those rings are ? 6mm? More?
I heard they were closing, I need to go down there tomorrow and take some photos, it's a real shame, sad to see them go. So much cool stuff in there, and not enough classy places like that left in the quarter any more.
It seems like there is a textile component in that Mughal armor, at least on the upper body. Maybe if I go there tomorrow I'll measure it.
J |
Jean I just found out that according to a sign on their door they are closed and in the process of moving to a new location in the Quarter but I do not know if they will still be displaying their armor and weapons along with the usual antiques.
As for the measurements of the links, I posted some images on photobucket which might help, they show some links against a measuring tape and also you can see the padded lining of an Indo-Persian riveted mail hood (kulah zirah), I have no idea how old it is but it gives some sort of feeling as to what the original linings of these armors may have looked like.
http://s831.photobucket.com/albums/zz238/estc...?start=all
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