Could this Tinker Falchion Be Effective Against Plate? -- myArmoury.com

Ryan S. · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2012 11:33 am Post subject:

Is piercing armor just a matter of enough energy?

Timo Nieminen · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject:

Mostly yes.

How much energy is "enough" depends on the geometry of the penetrator. A square spike is a good geometry - the narrower and pointier, the better. Until it's so thin it folds over when it hits.

If the weapon hits too slowly, a lot of the energy can be lost moving the armour or the armoured object; this energy won't be available for penetrating the armour.

Atkins, The science and engineering of cutting has a good chapter on armour piercing.

Chase Bolling

Has anyone handled a khopesh? I found these on an older thread and I find myself intrigued. Especially by the edge thickness and the handling characteristics. I've consistently read that they are more ax than sword is this true? I know most surviving examples were not sharpened and that got me to thinking. Would one of these constructed of steel but with the same dimensions as their dull bronze or iron ancestors be a threat to a man in plate armor? I would think that the thickness would keep blows from glancing off the armor. I am especially interested in the example from Iran with its edge almost 2mm thick.

Timo Nieminen · Last edited by Timo Nieminen on Sat 07 Jul, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

William P · Posted: Sat 07 Jul, 2012 12:28 am Post subject:

and my a40cm long daneaxe weighs 1.7kg but most of hat weight is the shaft
using this axehead http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_...mp;c_id=13 the head weighs 640 grams to give an idea.

also, heres a replica of a caananite sickle sword.
http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_...mp;c_id=12 considering that armour while no nonexistant, was rare for armies of aegypt and the levant, having a heavy weapon didn suit, and swords like the khopesh were probably slicing weapons and not brutal choppers.

Raman A · Posted: Sat 07 Jul, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject:

If you don't mind me asking, Chase, why are you so interested in finding a sword that is effective against plate? Quite frankly it seems to me the same as trying to find the best screwdriver with which to hammer nails.

Chase Bolling

Timo Nieminen · Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2012 2:10 am Post subject:

Looks agricultural. The grip and handguard is common enough on tools like billhooks. The spike is blunt, with completely unsharpened sides, and wouldn't get very good penetration (which would also be stopped by the flared side-hooks on the blade). If it was a weapon, a sharp spike would improve it.

Looks like a combination of a billhook and a Woodman's Pal (which is like a double-edge billhook, but with the hook on the back of the blade). Vineyard hook, perhaps?

You might be interested in a similar weapon, the Chinese chicken sickle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_sickles

In Chinese martial arts usage, the hooks appear to mostly be for blocking, binding, and trapping the opponent's weapon.

Kurt Scholz · Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2012 10:27 am Post subject:

What about a different approach as a thought experiment, take a warhammer or a mace and give it as much sword characteristics as possible. A bardice or a Lochhaber axe gets quite close, but they lose much of the sword characteristics because the sword has a balance that is irreconcilable with the balance of the best armour smashers. You can try to forge some compromise that works for you and your requirements. The khopesh or the African swords were used within an environment of tactical demands, technological capabilities and enemy specifications to serve a task. None of these tasks included something close to European plate armour. The spikes on your original falchion might be better than nothing against plate, but they can't have the balance of an axe and the balance of a sword to work both ways, it's either or more of that or the other kind.