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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had Victor select an idea for a sort of 'passau' mark:


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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scot,

I like the look of the steel you achieve after finishing the blade. The banding does give a look towards handmade steel which is really nice.
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Jeremy...

I've been having a heck of a time with snow melt and flooding issues so I haven't gotten as much done... or had time to take as many pictures.

But here is a detail and sort of a preview of how it will look. Cosmetics still need to be done. The cross guard is now deeply etched and wire brushed with a textured copper spacer. The grip is white oak/rawhide with risers. The back third of the handle will have copper wrap and rawhide to the pommel.


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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will post more detail pictures later... just the little bit of cosmetics on the pommel... but it's basically done:


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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a little update in case anybody is still tuned in... I'm going to take all the formal photos when the scabbard is complete. The wood core is done... just need to put some leather on it!
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Benjamin Rial




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PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lookin' good there Scott. Interested to see more pics and here final specs.
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Myles Mulkey





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PostPosted: Wed 14 Mar, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott, I want to hold this one. It's calling to me haha. Great job.
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Victor R.




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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Myles Mulkey wrote:
Scott, I want to hold this one. It's calling to me haha. Great job.


Just so long as you don't try to run away with it! Wink

BTW - awaiting Scott's next posting to make any comments on thoughts behind choices, name (there is one), etc. But the intial "finished" shots I've seen (can be found on Scott's blog) are absolutely beautiful! Really fits my personality and I think the high-quality shots Scott is planning to do and post will bring out just how amazing this piece of lethally functional art really is.
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys... and we got the leather onto the core for the scabbard today and am stitching it up tonight. Next comes putting on the copper chape and rawhide harness.... Hopefully by the end of the weekend...
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is the scabbard for Verteidiger. Cowhide over ash core with chiseled mortice for the blade. Deer rawhide and copper adornments. My apprentice, Lucas Brehm, did a lot of the work on this. He already had some leather and wood working skills and I showed him how to work the rawhide. I think he did a great job. The sword is wonderfully snug and secure and the harness is comfortable and secure.




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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott,
I admire the craftsmanship even though it doesn't speak to me. Was the scabbard done to specific customer specs? The historical parts of the scabbard suspension are a mix; the lacing of the belt to the scabbard can be found into the 14th century (earlier rather than later), while the slit tongue (no buckle arrangement) dates even earlier, usually prior to the 13th century. Given that the guard (up to the 14th century) and pommel (15th) are later, I'm curious why the earlier scabbard style was used.

Happy

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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the comments Chad... and I'm glad to hear your opinion.

To the first question, no. But he did like the scabbard that went with the sword 'Errant' that I posted on here earlier.

The most honest answer I can give you is that I really, really like that style of suspension. Who really knows if that style was or was not used though? The organic nature of that style would not easily survive the ravages of time.. and it's so useful and practical... why not use it? It's like a death grip when laced.. yet easy to untie. Besides... the theme of my work right now is that of the battle weary campaigner..... And those types often lose their buckles. :-)

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T. Arndt




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PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice sword, do you know the weight, overall length, blade length, grip length and POB? I'm interested in comparing it to other XVa swords.

Also:
Scott Roush wrote:
...Who really knows if that style was or was not used though? The organic nature of that style would not easily survive the ravages of time....


Period artwork? Razz
While older items can be used in later periods we can use effigies (and other period artwork) to make basic guesses about when styles were in common usage, unlikely usage and rarely used.

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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm still doing some 'ageing' of the pommel but plan to take the final photographs of the sword and final measurements and details will be posted with that. But it is just at 3 lbs and POB is close to 4". Blade is, I believe 33".

I completely understand that you can get an idea of what the 'norm' was through that kind of work. But how much art work during the Middle Ages depicts normal, every day events? I'm sincere with this question as I haven't studied this sort of thing.

For my work, I enjoy having a story and a consistent theme. You can call it fantasy if you wish... but I like the boundaries of my work to be dictated by possibilities rather than what was the norm. It just gives me a lot more to play with in terms of developing a story. And right now I'm fascinated with the 'realities' of medieval war, long campaigns far from home, and all the wear and tear that goes along with that. Therefore a simple, working scabbard seemed to fit with this piece better.

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar, 2012 5:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Roush wrote:
Who really knows if that style was or was not used though? The organic nature of that style would not easily survive the ravages of time.. and it's so useful and practical... why not use it? It's like a death grip when laced.. yet easy to untie.


We have oodles of period art to use as a guide as well as some surviving examples. So we have plenty of evidence that doesn't show that style lasting into the era of your sword's pommel. Happy You might find one odd, weird example that disproves this theory, but it's pretty easy to say that style was far from typical for that era.

Being the customer's request explains it, though. Many people like the style and it is practical. But I've also seen quite a number of makers using this style of laced suspension for swords that clearly don't go with it. I hope people aren't beginning to think that it was typical for any sword between 1000 and 1500.

Many things are possible, but I personally prefer to stick with what's provable with a relative level of certainty. That's just me and your mileage obviously varies given the elements you incorporate into your work.

Period art can be a good guide for much about weapons and armour. Exceptions include depictions of biblical items not known to exist at the time (like some depictions of Goliath's greaves) or the strength of armour when the armour's strength comes into opposition with story-telling (helmets being cut like paper). Happy But a great deal of what we know about clothing, weapons, and armour comes from period art.

Is the belt laced through the scabbard cover or just through the lighter-colored layer of leather?

Happy

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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar, 2012 5:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By the way, my intent is not to start some debate on historical accuracy, which would take things off-topic and detract from the thread going on. Happy I was more curious about your inspirations and how much was customer spec vs. your free hand.
Happy

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Myles Mulkey





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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm loving it! Texture wise I think it's amazing and I think the use of rawhide (something I haven't seen before) is really something cool. The sword is awesome.

As for the scabbard, I personally would prefer a plain strap rather than a braided one, but that's just my preference.
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Myles... the braid was a last minute decision. I can see how it might be a bit bold for some!

The belt is laced through what is actually the same deer rawhide that is on the grip. It is applied wet and when it dries it becomes extremely tough and like a second skin to the scabbard.

As to historical accuracy and the choice of the method... I would say that the artist's hand influenced the customer's choice. Also.. I don't have anything personal against buckles. In fact... I can't wait to play at the forge with making them from my wrought iron.

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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting commentary on Verteidiger.

Scott and I spoke at length at the beginning of the project on direction, overall feel, historically proven vs. plausible, etc., with frequent follow-up via e-mail along the way (great communication and great to work with, BTW - well, Scott is; I may have a few "pain in the @$$" tendencies...). For the most part, while I expressed certain particulars as important to me, I left much of the detail in Scott's able hands - he understood the shared vision, so I trusted him to get it right. As to the final result, not precisely following what was "typical" of a precise era, well, I bought into it, lock, stock and barrel (literally and figuratively Wink )!

The name gives the first part of the story (although it wasn't determined until later in the process): Verteidiger, German for "defender" (follow link for pronunciation, assuming I put that in correctly [url]http://translate.google.com/#auto|de|defender[/url]). I liked the concept of Knight-Errant, and, due to my Germanic roots, explored what that would be in German; however, the German, "Fahrender Ritter" doesn't exactly come rolling off the tongue for a non-German. Looked at several other words fitting the concept, and liked Verteidiger best (rolls pretty well for German), and the alliteration with my name didn't hurt. Laughing Out Loud

So, we have a Southern German knight or man-at-arms that has lost his lands (wrong place in birth order, treachery, who knows) that seeks to use his skills in honorable service to others - a defender. His era is the very end of the XIVth into the early XVth century. His sword is a sturdy thruster, but not solely dedicated to the thrust. He's not your typical "noble" knight, so his sword is not typical either: he has no visions of spending unnecessary volumes of money to have a graven image made of himself in all of the days latest finery at his death - he uses what works for him, what is reliable and what is easily repaired and maintained with materials he can obtain readily from the lands he is roaming - deerskin rawhide, say, a twist of copper wire for a grip, sheet copper for a chape. Being German, he is highly practical - thong suspension, not a lot of buckles, sturdy, easily repaired (and, based upon something I read - on myArmoury I believe although I can't find it now to save my life - popular in Germanic areas far longer than elsewhere).

As for the furniture, again, while the choices didn't seem to be popular together, there appear to be common points in the timelines for each element. As to their use on a sword of Type XV/XVa, while you had your more "popular" styles, the Oakeshott typology discussion on myArmoury suggests that nearly anything post-Viking age is plausible. So, style 5 cross, and what I believe is a Type V1 pommel, not a common - maybe even unknown - combination, but could have happened. Of course, Type V1 is considered almost exclusively Italian: I did indicate Southern German and, BTW, I happen to be about 3/4 Germanic descent, 1/4 Italian. A fighting man in the HRE during this era almost certainly would have seen each of these influences in that time. That pommel may have been his one "shout out" to the bit of Italian in his roots, and to "modern" fashion. Razz

As for the "bling" being copper, that is one of my major preferences and one Scott seems to be fully behind. When it comes to my precious/semi-precious metals, I prefer the warmth of copper or bronze, as well as the patina each picks up as they age. Gold, too flashy for me and for the persona represented; brass - also, flashy, too bright, cold. Rose gold, on the other hand....or even aged silver. But, by far, copper is my favorite. And the "passau" mark, it was inspired by the eagle of the HRE, which remains an important German symbol to this day.

So, is Verteidiger a-typical? Based on surviving pieces and artwork, it would seem so. But, for the time and place represented, were the elements in existence and use? That appears to be so. So, while this might not be the weapon and suspension of a courtly gentleman of the time, the persona represented had no interest in what was courtly and, as far as the term "gentleman" goes when coupled with the term "courtly", well, he would have no desire to be that kind of "gentleman". Wink

I hope people will appreciate Verteidiger for what it is and try to understand the inspiration behind it. I certainly do; I believe Scott does; and, at the end of the day, I think that is what is most important.
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Scott Roush
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for that Victor. So nice to see your summary of all of all our conversations in one place! And It's nice when I get an opportunity to learn from the customer.....
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