Museum Line Update -- St. Maurice of Turin -- myArmoury.com

Brian M · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 8:52 am Post subject:

That's awesome. Do you have a rough idea yet for a release date, say next summer? I will be ordering one of those with a scabbard.

Brian M

Howard Waddell · Industry Professional

Howard Waddell · Industry Professional

Lloyd Clark · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 10:40 am Post subject:

Howy,

That is simply a beautiful sword.

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

What will surprise people the most is the pommel - especially those used to the Del Tin 2130. A bit different from what the usual side views show...

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject:

This is a gorgeous weapon- and I WOULD pick it up, but- I guess I can't wrap my brain around that length 36 inches on a single-hande!. It really seems like this sword is SO oriented to cavalry usage that it would be almost combersome on foot, and since I have no horse or desire to get one then I feel like I wouldn't really be experiencing this sword the way it's meant to work.
I have that feeling, a bit with my Templar- which I love- there's just so much blade out there. I guess it doesn't help that I have no yard or access to the outdoors so I can't currently put my swords through their paces. Jeremy

Brian M · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject:

Do you have access to a motorcycle or a convertible car? You could have someone else drive and you kind of hang out the passenger door and....... Big Grin

Just don't practice on pedestrians!

Brian M

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject:

Hey Brian,
Motorcycle. . . hmmm. . . I like it, maybe a theme for an upcomming UPN show. Well, there was night rider although that was kind of different. WTF?!

Alina Boyden · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 4:23 pm Post subject:

Geoff Wood · Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject:

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

R. Laine · Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2004 5:13 am Post subject:

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2004 8:24 am Post subject:

I'm not really saying that the sword would be cumbersome per se- more that it is very oriented to use on horseback thus usage on foot- the only way I would ever use it- might be somehow misplaced. Kind of like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. .

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

I wanted to share with you all a photo of the authentic sword of Saint Maurice of Turin with its scabbard, circa 1200-50:

Click photo to see high-resolution version

Brian M · Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject:

Cool, I'd never seen a full-length of the scabbard. I've heard that the scabbard is basically pieced together from scrap leather pieces. It looks like it has a pretty substantial chape, which I assume is iron?
The full-size photo really lets one appreciate both the beefy blade and the graceful parabolic taper to the semi-spatulate point.
I'm excited about the prospect of getting a replication of this sword and scabbard.

Brian M

R. Laine · Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 1:01 am Post subject:

Geoff Wood · Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 2:34 am Post subject:

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

Hi all,

What you can´t clearly see in the photo is that the grip is linen fabric wound many times around the wooden grip core around the tang. The swelling of the grip towards the pommel is mostly just a lifting of the material. When it is time to make the final prototype details like this will be re-visited and analyzed again, to make sure the interpretation is based on proper observation and critical evaluation of recorded data.
The fabric of the grip is held down with some sort of wax, shellack or hide glue. There is some brownsh material caught in the weave of the linen that has a glossy feel to it in the high spots.
It is most mysitfying: never seen that before on any other sword.
I am not sure this was the original outer surface of the grip. It could have been the foundation for a leather cover or some other cover material.
Then again, it might have been the original grip cover, but it seems a bit too fragile to me.
What type of grip cover that is to be used in the museum line Maurice is still not decided.
The parabolic curving to the point is a very important feature in this blade as is the very sublte curves and surfaces of the pommel and cross.
This contour I have failed to convey properly in the concept sketch: it is not within my ability to do this in a drawing scale 1:5. You´ll have to compare the drawing and the photo to get an idea of what the sword is about.
The photo on the other hand gives a slightly distorted impression. This is often the case with full length shots of swords: the lense distorts hilt or point making one or both ends of the sword look out of proportion. On a white background this is difficult to pick out.

The blade is indeeed large. Expect a magnum sized weapon with this one. The blade is about the same size and heft as the blade of the NG Duke, but with a single hand hilt.
To talk about blade prescence with this sword is almost an understatement...:-)
Still it is not clumsy.
Diffiult to describe this sword in words.
You have to hold it to even begin to form an understanding of this weapon. Therefore I find it an extremely interesting example as it clearly show an aspect of the European sword that is not so well known or at least underappreciated.
It does not fit easily within any of the now popular ideas of what a "good" sword should be. I have no doubt that this was a high quality weapon in its time, though.
Oakeshott writes in his "Sword in Hand" about a family or type of extremely large single hand swords that seems to have seen some popularity during the period of mail armour.
There are examples of these swords scattered around Europe in museums and collections. Some of these you can see published in Records and other books. Others are un-published.
In the store room of the collection of Uppsala university there is a huge sword (probably of type XIa) with a broken blade. The width of the blade at the base is 72 mm (!). It makes the "Sovereingn" of the NG line look slim and narrow, since this spade of a sword has no waisitng of the outline but has more or less paralell edges the first half of the blade length. Still it is a single handed sword.

The Saint Maurice scabbard was obviously made in a hurry as part of a batch of many scabbards. The leather cover on the wood core is made up from two parts to cover the whole length.
The belt that goes around the back of the wearer is made up from a saved and re-used peice of saddle girth (?) or similar (cut more narrow than it originally was).
The lacing if the upper and lower belt to the scabbard is intricate, to say the least. Not the most logical way to do the lacing, but the method and principle of this lacing will be copied in detail. It offers a rare insight to how these scabbards were made.
The chape is of forged iron sheet metal. It is rather crudely made.

I do not at this date know how the scabbard is best replicated in prduction.
To mimic irregularities and mistakes or shortcomings is difficult and often more expensive than making something straight.
Presently I think the best way to go is to offer two versions of the scabbard: one that is made to the same principle as the original, duplicating the principle shape of the chape, lacing and other details, but making it with non-patched materials. A more expensive option would be to do the worn and patched version, with un-even stitching, mis-matched parts, mistakes and irregularities.
Even thought this sword is extremely well preserved there are some details that are not so clear, for example: what was the original grip cover? what did the buckle look like, or was it two slits cut in the belt end?
These has to be addressed as we develop the sword.

The goal for the museum line sword is to represent the weapons as they looked the day they were new. Even if the image of the sword as it is today, worn and marked by time, is very attractive, a patination to mimic this in smallest detail is beyond the possibility of this production. A general distressing of the surface and materials (as in the campaign look applied to swords on request) might be posssible for those customers who appreciate that character, as an optional extra.
The museum line Saint Maurice is not a copy of the word as it looks today, it is a reconstruction of the sword as it would have been when new.

The Saint Maurice of the Museum Line will have the same heft, feel and performance of the original, but the look of a newly made sword. A sword that could be a close sibling or even twin to the original.

Brian M · Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 7:40 am Post subject:

Thanks for the great info, Peter. I have the feeling that most will order a "pristine" version of the scabbard rather than one that is an exact copy warts and all.

Brian M

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 8:41 am Post subject:

Thanks for the post Peter,
It was facinating reading- it will be really great to see this sword come along.