[Ricardo S.]

Hi, does anyone knows which auction house sold this sword? Thank you.

Description:

An Extremely Rare and Important German Medieval sword (Passau?) circa 1300
Double edged blade grooved on both sides, a central brass inlaid crook mark on either side. Straight quillons, wooden grip covered with leather. The iron wheel shaped pommel inlaid with a brass eagle and a brass lily. Length 112 cm.
Lit.: R.Ewart Oakeshott; 'The Sword in the age of Chivalry', 1964, pp. 41 and 95. Type X-a.

Images attached below.

[Jeremy V. Krause]

I don't know but that really is an attractive sword. I wonder if that really is brass or bronze? The brass? detailing is very nice.

[Ricardo S.]

[J.D. Crawford]

Indeed its a nice looking sword, but I'd be cautious about its authenticity. It just doesn't look right to me.

[Peter Johnsson]

I am also not convinced about its authenticity.
It has the same character as many swords that has surfaced over the last few years, being sold on various auction houses.

To me it seems someone is very busy changing our history by producing spanking new medieval swords.

[Josh S]

I agree. My first impression was that I like the blade -looks a little wide towards the tip but not too excessively so- but the grip and, in particular, pommel look a little blockish to me. Then again, not every historical sword was perfect

[Craig Peters]

It's a nice looking sword, but the fleur-de-lis makes me wonder about it, too. This particular design on the pommel seems a little too neat, the same way a Crusade sword with a pommel on the cross is a little too neat. I know the fleur-de-lis was a medieval symbol, but it still feels a bit "off" here. Also, the bronze around the edge of the pommel and on the guard seems a bit wrong.

[Danny Grigg]

[Jeremy V. Krause]

Wel, I trust you guys, I must have been tricked!

I, too, thought the fleur de lis looked odd, but other-wise it looked fine so. . .

[Ricardo S.]

[quote="Danny Grigg"]

[Ricardo S.]

Interesting thoughts guys, thank you. Do you have any more information about this sword? Could it be one of those carefully preserved indoors? Could the date be wrong?

Ps: i'm sending the other side of the pommel attached bellow.

Take care everyone.

[J.D. Crawford]

Strange that the description calls it an Xa, and then refers to pages of Oakeshott that provide general descriptions of XIII swords and disc/wheel pommels.

My original suspicion about this sword was not based on its good condition per se. There are very well accepted swords in better condition than this. My hero Oakeshott always said you cannot judge a sword by its condition. My initial suspicion was rather an overall gut feeling that it did not look right. Trying to analyze that impression, I think its a due to a collection of features that are both unusual in themselves and unsual in combination, plus a few red flags:

The overall outline of the sword is typical XIII, but if you look at the blade, its not a typical XIII. It does not have the geometry one expects in the profile and tip, and possibly thickness (from what one can tell from the shading in the photo). The blade profile looks more like an earlier Xa, although the fuller is about midway between the typical length of an XIII and and Xa. One might speculate that a more modern hilt was put on an older blade, but I doubt they would lengthen the tang, and why would someone put such a kingly hilt on such a plain old blade? A type 2 cross is pretty typical on XIII swords, but this one is on the thickish side (which one sees more often on sword replicas than real swords). The preserved handle is not unknown, but is unlikely. The gilding (perhaps not the right word) on the cross is very unusual. The matching pommel decorations are relatively rare for such a simple warsword. I don't know this particular fleur de lis symbol, but others have questioned it above. Together these decorative features of this general type are quite unusual in real medieval swords, although apparently commonin 19th century fakes (sword fakers can't seem to resist making things look special). Then there's the overall condition - a very uniform light pitting, from what one can see. This could be from hanging up a long time indoors, but one also sees patterns this in known fakes.

None of this is proof - but as a collection of unusual features, multiplying out all the very low probabilities, and dividing by the suspicious features, one is left with a very very very low probability that this is a real medieval sword.

However, I'm not a professional in these matters, I'm just an enthusiast who has spent years staring at pictures of swords in books and on the interent, collecting replicas good and bad, and alas, occassionally peering at originals through glass.

Only laboratory tests could show for sure.

[Ricardo S.]

Wow Mr. Crawford, thats a good deal of information. Thank you very much. Indeed the descriptions they provide at the auction houses are often wrong or misleading. I shall carefully to study what you told about this sword and try to identify the points in question. Since your knowledge about the matter is much greater than mine (and the other fellows are suspicious also) i will consider that probably this sword is a fake. Thank you again for taking time to answer my questions in such detail.
Take care.

[Chad Arnow]

The inlaid twisted wire around the faces of the guard and pommel is extremely odd and not the kind of decoration usually seen. I'm dubious about the hilt.

[Jared Smith]

I'm not 100% confident about it, but the two pommel side designs; fleur de lis, and the German eagle don't seem to logically belong together. I could understand if the blade had been rehilted that the pomel design might not fit with a blade design, but the pommel should have been done at one time.

[Ricardo S.]

[Ricardo S.]

[Jared Smith]

[Ricardo S.]

Mr. Smith, again you amazes me, thats a nice amount of evidence that we are talking about a fake. The points you have enunciated are, in my opinion, very relevant. But i wonder if there is at least a tiny chance this sword is an original collection of oddities... But yet again i remember the points you brought to light and i grow even more dubious about the sword. Thank you very much.
Take care.

[Cornelis Tromp]