It's good to know it was resolved in the end. Cheers.
If I wanted one of the Darksword products I think I would get it from Kult of Athena and e-mail Ryan at KoA first to make sure I got one that was inspected for any unacceptable assembly flaws or surface defects and make sure I got a good one.
Also, I wouldn't be worried about the shipping boxing up by KoA.
I could say the same for any other makers products I didn't already have confidence in their quality control or had no personal experience with having seen their work up close ..... or read positive reviews from people I trust.
Also, I wouldn't be worried about the shipping boxing up by KoA.
I could say the same for any other makers products I didn't already have confidence in their quality control or had no personal experience with having seen their work up close ..... or read positive reviews from people I trust.
It's interesting how many people like to bash on Darksword, but when it's about personal contact with Eyal, it's almost always a tale of great care for a customer that usually ends with a very satisfied customer.
| Luka Borscak wrote: |
| It's interesting how many people like to bash on Darksword, but when it's about personal contact with Eyal, it's almost always a tale of great care for a customer that usually ends with a very satisfied customer. |
Courtesy doesn't substitute for facts.
Sometimes it is better to get complete facts and information from a rough individual than to receive evasive answers by a curteous individual.
This community is mostly made by customers who try to get as many informations as they can before spending money that is mostly hard earned (and collectors of original items have the same right of getting informed about theauthenticity of what they pay very high sum of money, which implies again some sort of deep screening of vendors).
To try to assess the validity of a vendor prior to getting burnt in both cases is legitimate and prudent. Money doesnt grow on trees alas, and collecting can be a real weight on the finances of most common people.
A little addendum. Some of us have possibly been looking a little bit on the "hunt that man" path, but this isn't true. Because building a collection does make sense only if the collection can be considered an investment, with pieces being sellable in case of necessity: this si true for both the buyers of replicas and for the buyers of originals.
Buying faulty pieces can result in financial losses that might easily tarnish the reputation of a collector in case of antique pieces: for a collector of replica pieces, usually less affluent people, this might mean to stop collecting. Also, the buying of fake or worthless replica pieces would mean a loss of credibility with relatives who most often tend to see collecting as an unuseful, purpose-less, financially burdensome activity.
So it is of fundamental importance for a collector to be able to understand of what vendors he might be trustful. In the process, sometimes, education and diplomacy may end up as victims, at least to an extent, but this is better than being cheated of one's money.
Buying faulty pieces can result in financial losses that might easily tarnish the reputation of a collector in case of antique pieces: for a collector of replica pieces, usually less affluent people, this might mean to stop collecting. Also, the buying of fake or worthless replica pieces would mean a loss of credibility with relatives who most often tend to see collecting as an unuseful, purpose-less, financially burdensome activity.
So it is of fundamental importance for a collector to be able to understand of what vendors he might be trustful. In the process, sometimes, education and diplomacy may end up as victims, at least to an extent, but this is better than being cheated of one's money.
Luka Borscak said:
Whoa, take it easy big guy.
I certainly don't enjoy bashing anyone or any maker and feel my posts in this thread are vital information to any prospective buyer. The highly blemished Norman sword and the completely ridiculous parrying dagger are in my face facts. Not "I heard that Darksword did ... ", or "Rumor has it that Darksword has ... " I have physical evidence, if you will.
Indeed, Eyal is generally quite courteous, and he should be, he's running a business. I did not post every email exchange where in a few of those I felt he was less than courteous. But I'm not here debate his personal behavior. I want the collecting community to know about the poor quality of products I received from Darksword, simple as that. And while a solution to the problem has been agreed upon, I am not "a very satisfied customer". On the contrary, I will think long and hard before I purchase anything from Darksword again. I've wasted too much time in dealing with this.
And if Darksword is being 'bashed', I prefer 'critiqued', then from my point of view they deserve it. There is no acceptable excuse for what I received from them. And if I were in Eyal's shoes I would want to know about customer dissatisfaction, each and every instance.
Related to what Bruno Giordan mentioned; before anything else, I derive pleasure from my collection. The sculpture-like beauty of each piece, the design and execution of that design, the functionality, the basic satisfaction of holding a well made weapon, etc. Yet, I also think of my collection as an asset. All of us here have collections of various levels which will at least retain some value, some will actually increase in value over time. From my perspective it's comforting to know that if I need a few bucks I can always sell pieces from my collection. I hope that doesn't happen, but never say never. And besides, that's a good rationale I give to my wife. ;)
BTW, I hope to get those pictures up tonight.
Best, Jon
| Quote: |
| It's interesting how many people like to bash on Darksword, but when it's about personal contact with Eyal, it's almost always a tale of great care for a customer that usually ends with a very satisfied customer. |
Whoa, take it easy big guy.
I certainly don't enjoy bashing anyone or any maker and feel my posts in this thread are vital information to any prospective buyer. The highly blemished Norman sword and the completely ridiculous parrying dagger are in my face facts. Not "I heard that Darksword did ... ", or "Rumor has it that Darksword has ... " I have physical evidence, if you will.
Indeed, Eyal is generally quite courteous, and he should be, he's running a business. I did not post every email exchange where in a few of those I felt he was less than courteous. But I'm not here debate his personal behavior. I want the collecting community to know about the poor quality of products I received from Darksword, simple as that. And while a solution to the problem has been agreed upon, I am not "a very satisfied customer". On the contrary, I will think long and hard before I purchase anything from Darksword again. I've wasted too much time in dealing with this.
And if Darksword is being 'bashed', I prefer 'critiqued', then from my point of view they deserve it. There is no acceptable excuse for what I received from them. And if I were in Eyal's shoes I would want to know about customer dissatisfaction, each and every instance.
Related to what Bruno Giordan mentioned; before anything else, I derive pleasure from my collection. The sculpture-like beauty of each piece, the design and execution of that design, the functionality, the basic satisfaction of holding a well made weapon, etc. Yet, I also think of my collection as an asset. All of us here have collections of various levels which will at least retain some value, some will actually increase in value over time. From my perspective it's comforting to know that if I need a few bucks I can always sell pieces from my collection. I hope that doesn't happen, but never say never. And besides, that's a good rationale I give to my wife. ;)
BTW, I hope to get those pictures up tonight.
Best, Jon
| J. Hargis wrote: | ||
Luka Borscak said:
Whoa, take it easy big guy. I certainly don't enjoy bashing anyone or any maker and feel my posts in this thread are vital information to any prospective buyer. The highly blemished Norman sword and the completely ridiculous parrying dagger are in my face facts. Not "I heard that Darksword did ... ", or "Rumor has it that Darksword has ... " I have physical evidence, if you will. Indeed, Eyal is generally quite courteous, and he should be, he's running a business. I did not post every email exchange where in a few of those I felt he was less than courteous. But I'm not here debate his personal behavior. I want the collecting community to know about the poor quality of products I received from Darksword, simple as that. And while a solution to the problem has been agreed upon, I am not "a very satisfied customer". On the contrary, I will think long and hard before I purchase anything from Darksword again. I've wasted too much time in dealing with this. And if Darksword is being 'bashed', I prefer 'critiqued', then from my point of view they deserve it. There is no acceptable excuse for what I received from them. And if I were in Eyal's shoes I would want to know about customer dissatisfaction, each and every instance. Related to what Bruno Giordan mentioned; before anything else, I derive pleasure from my collection. The sculpture-like beauty of each piece, the design and execution of that design, the functionality, the basic satisfaction of holding a well made weapon, etc. Yet, I also think of my collection as an asset. All of us here have collections of various levels which will at least retain some value, some will actually increase in value over time. From my perspective it's comforting to know that if I need a few bucks I can always sell pieces from my collection. I hope that doesn't happen, but never say never. And besides, that's a good rationale I give to my wife. ;) BTW, I hope to get those pictures up tonight. Best, Jon |
This was not meant for you or any individual specifically. It's a general observation after reading many threads dealing with Darksword armory products.
| Luka Borscak wrote: |
|
This was not meant for you or any individual specifically. It's a general observation after reading many threads dealing with Darksword armory products. |
Luka,
There's quite a history in old posts that illuminate why people respond as they do in these kind of threads. Some of the threads that make up that history have been trashed/removed for a variety of very valid reasons. Having witnessed this history unfold, I'm not surprised at people's reactions. I do wish folks on both sides could tone things down sometimes, though, as the vitriol keeps discussions from being productive, professional, and sometimes causes info that could be valuable to others in the future to be trashed/removed.
although they are heavy and definitely not albions in their handling, i have come to respect DSA for their durability. i know that they have made many swords that are very heavy and not too historically accurate, i believe that they are moving in the right direction. for example when it comes to sword weight they seem to have had a little progress http://www.darksword-armory.com/products-page...man-sword/
i went to KOA recently and handled a few. while inferior to the albion and A&A swords i handled they were a little bit more agile than the del tins i handled. i still think they have a little ways to go in the way of weight and i would not complain if the started to work on the blades to make then a little more even and aligned. i still personally believe that they make a good sword for the price point.
i went to KOA recently and handled a few. while inferior to the albion and A&A swords i handled they were a little bit more agile than the del tins i handled. i still think they have a little ways to go in the way of weight and i would not complain if the started to work on the blades to make then a little more even and aligned. i still personally believe that they make a good sword for the price point.
Hi Jon,
A few pictures makes a long story short. Are you able to share a few shots a your Normand Sword and of your "completely ridiculous parrying dagger" as you put it?
A few pictures makes a long story short. Are you able to share a few shots a your Normand Sword and of your "completely ridiculous parrying dagger" as you put it?
Seems to me there are two discrete issues here, product vs. service.
As to the product, I have handled one DSA sword (the Medieval Knight, owned by a friend) and while it certainly didn't come anywhere near the "float in the hand" standard, it had its good points, especially considering the price. It looked good, was sturdily put together, and the blade itself seemed virtually indestructible. My buddy used it to split logs and trim the hedges, and once (he claimed) even used it to demolish an inner wall when he was remodeling his kitchen. Not a refined or "agile" blade, certainly, and claims to historical accuracy are indeed, let's say, snicker-worthy, but it is what it is, and it does what it does, and if that's what you like, it's good value for the money, even if your backyard may well end up looking like you've hired a psycho for a gardener. It wouldn't be my choice at the moment, but I might change my mind if I ever wanted a fun way to hack through some drywall and plaster.
As for service, though, this is a tale of massive failure. It does appear, from subsequent posts, that DSA did communicate a bit more than I had initially assumed, and it seems that they've done their part to rectify the errors, for which they deserve some credit; still, they seem to be pretty major errors, and it would certainly give me pause if I ever were in the market for a fearsome medieval logsplitter. Mr. Thibodeau is surely right that, in view of this story at least, the smart way to order one of these products would be to go through a reliable dealer like Kult of Athena who has a good quality control track record rather than direct from the manufacturer, but the fact that customers have to jerry-rig and administer such "outsourcing" of DSA's quality control on their own does not speak highly of it, in my opinion. And as a possible potential customer perhaps maybe someday, this data is good to know.
As to the product, I have handled one DSA sword (the Medieval Knight, owned by a friend) and while it certainly didn't come anywhere near the "float in the hand" standard, it had its good points, especially considering the price. It looked good, was sturdily put together, and the blade itself seemed virtually indestructible. My buddy used it to split logs and trim the hedges, and once (he claimed) even used it to demolish an inner wall when he was remodeling his kitchen. Not a refined or "agile" blade, certainly, and claims to historical accuracy are indeed, let's say, snicker-worthy, but it is what it is, and it does what it does, and if that's what you like, it's good value for the money, even if your backyard may well end up looking like you've hired a psycho for a gardener. It wouldn't be my choice at the moment, but I might change my mind if I ever wanted a fun way to hack through some drywall and plaster.
As for service, though, this is a tale of massive failure. It does appear, from subsequent posts, that DSA did communicate a bit more than I had initially assumed, and it seems that they've done their part to rectify the errors, for which they deserve some credit; still, they seem to be pretty major errors, and it would certainly give me pause if I ever were in the market for a fearsome medieval logsplitter. Mr. Thibodeau is surely right that, in view of this story at least, the smart way to order one of these products would be to go through a reliable dealer like Kult of Athena who has a good quality control track record rather than direct from the manufacturer, but the fact that customers have to jerry-rig and administer such "outsourcing" of DSA's quality control on their own does not speak highly of it, in my opinion. And as a possible potential customer perhaps maybe someday, this data is good to know.
Here are some photos, of the Darksword 1812 Paryying Dagger.
You'll see wood through an incomplete wire wrap, soldering gone bad, scratches, a very large rust filled one, and general mayhem as I described. These photos were hastily done, apologies for exposure issues, but you can see what you need to see. There were other areas, especially around the pommel that I did not include, but these should suffice.
As stated, I decided to keep The Norman and do some repairs.
Thanks, Jon.
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You'll see wood through an incomplete wire wrap, soldering gone bad, scratches, a very large rust filled one, and general mayhem as I described. These photos were hastily done, apologies for exposure issues, but you can see what you need to see. There were other areas, especially around the pommel that I did not include, but these should suffice.
As stated, I decided to keep The Norman and do some repairs.
Thanks, Jon.
Attachment: 102.52 KB Attachment: 102.75 KB Attachment: 99.49 KB Attachment: 105.04 KB Attachment: 111.86 KB Attachment: 107.19 KBthanks Jon,
That pretty much says it all :)
Glad you could return it.
That pretty much says it all :)
Glad you could return it.
Julien,
You're welcome.
I could have piled on more photos, especially of the rusted areas along the sides of the ricasso and around the pommel, but if these aren't convincing than nothing is.
And to think that for $20.00 more I could have had an Arms & Armour dagger, which begin at $180.00. Live & learn.
Regards, Jon
You're welcome.
I could have piled on more photos, especially of the rusted areas along the sides of the ricasso and around the pommel, but if these aren't convincing than nothing is.
And to think that for $20.00 more I could have had an Arms & Armour dagger, which begin at $180.00. Live & learn.
Regards, Jon
Wow. Stunning. Photos pretty much say it all. And this was priced 20 dollars less than an A&A dagger?! Wow. That level of work reminds me of Museum Replicas when Windlass first took over MANY years ago. (same gaps in wire wrap, rust, etc) Don't think more photos are needed at all!
How long has Eyal been forging these swords and daggers up there in Canada?
Ye gods! Too right that says it all. It's actually quite comical. Glad you were able to return it.
F. Portman:
My thoughts precisely ... at this point.
Best, Jon
| Quote: |
| Ye gods! Too right that says it all. It's actually quite comical. |
My thoughts precisely ... at this point.
Best, Jon
| Nathan Robinson wrote: | ||
Why assume anything? Only people in the Industry Professionals group can post new topics in the Makers forum. Should Eyal want to apply to the group, he certainly is welcome to do so and we'll consider the application as we would from anyone else. When considering entry, the answers to the application questions are considered along with the track record of the applicant. The group is not open to any and all manufacturers. It's an earned privilege, not a right. |
With all do respect Nathan, I have applied a number of times, but myArmoury refuses to grant me permission to post threads in the manufacturer section. Should you reconsider, I would be very grateful. The only explanation I received was that my "membership" to the "room" was terminated by myArmoury (which is strange since I never had access to the room in question and never posted a thread or comment in the stated room). I'll apply again. Hopefully our request will be accepted.
Thank you,
Eyal Azerad
DSA Inc.
| Eyal Azerad wrote: |
| With all do respect Nathan, I have applied a number of times, but myArmoury refuses to grant me permission to post threads in the manufacturer section. Should you reconsider, I would be very grateful. The only explanation I received was that my "membership" to the "room" was terminated by myArmoury (which is strange since I never had access to the room in question and never posted a thread or comment in the stated room). I'll apply again. Hopefully our request will be accepted.
Thank you, Eyal Azerad DSA Inc. |
This is incorrect. I would never say that because there are no "rooms" and I don't even know what that means. Please take care when quoting others to ensure you're accurate. I want to emphasize that you should take special care to do so when quoting me on my own site.
You were a member of the Industry Pro group years ago and the membership was revoked because you attacked members, insulted me and other moderators, and repeatedly broke the rules of the site. You were given several passes and multiple opportunities to remedy the situation and decided instead to escalate it. You were given a very clear explanation and you were involved in the process as it happened. I normally would respect your privacy and not disclose this publicly, but since you've opted to paint me as a person who mysteriously terminated your industry professional status, I feel compelled to clarify the situation.
This was many years ago and I certainly hope that this stuff would never happen again, but honestly, reading this post doesn't put me at ease.
I have logs for all industry professional applications. You have not applied multiple times. This is factually incorrect. You've been told that you can reapply for Industry Pro status on multiple occasions but have yet to do so.
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