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Sean O Stevens
Location: Grovetown, GA Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 208
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 Posted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: |
Is SBG still offering free or discounted swords to reviewers as they used to? |
Nope...
I'm on a list of what are called 'VIP Reviewers'. You had to do a certain amount of reviews and earn a certain amount of points for them to get on the list... then, the idea was, you would go into a 'que' and SBG would send you a sword when it was your turn in the Que to review and keep for free.
Sometime even before the old site was replaced and the new site got started... that whole deal stalled out... and it has been years since anyone on the VIP reviewer list received a free sword to review.
All the 20+ reviews I have done have been of swords I bought with my own money that were mine... except for the most recent one i did of an Albion Dane. That sword a buddy bought from Nathan here... and he shipped it to me... I kept it for a bit, played with it and reviewed it and then sent it on its way to him in Australia.
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Glen A Cleeton
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Mon 19 Mar, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | J. Hargis wrote: | I believe that the moderators here have made it clear that myArmoury does not engage in ratings for concerns of appearing biased, and for good reason.
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A bigger problem is that most rating systems tend to be arbitrary and try to put weapons with vastly different dates/origins/intended uses into the same box. It's all about context, not assigning a random number. |
The forum reviews have had that non-sense knocked out of them. I was one of the biggest push for getting rid of that stupid star system...unfortunately, all the old reviews on the site still have the stars. Those reviews need to be either updated or tossed in all honesty.
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Sean O Stevens
Location: Grovetown, GA Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Tue 20 Mar, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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The VIP reviewers spotlight section was, I think, going to be more active... but as I mentioned.. everything involving the VIP reviewers stalled out a couple years ago... so nothing is really being done with them/that.
The review index was meant to be like the one on the old site... a master list of all the reviews done by all the members that could be quickly and easily looked up by make/model of weapon. James did that list on the old site... and it looked like a lot of work. No moderator has decided to take that on as of yet on the new site.
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Jeffrey Faulk
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| Posted: Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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For those who don't frequent SBG...
A big part of the issues with the 'home' website and the SBG forum itself is that the forum has grown/moved beyond the small community it used to be with Paul Southren and the UBC crowd. Paul has been far less active of late due to many personal life concerns, and since he's pretty much the only person who can authorize any changes to the website or forum, many aspects are quite dated. The reviews on the main site are just one example-- they're from the early or mid 2000's (IIRC), when the market for cheap reproduction swords wasn't as good as it is now.
We've discussed some changes on the forum, but honestly the staff can't really make any sweeping changes to the forum, much less the main site, without Paul's input. While he pops up on extremely rare occasions, approves manufacturer and vendor accounts, he just hasn't been there lately. To make a comparison, it's as though Nathan Robinson and Chad Arnow here decided to move out of the country and get very active jobs that allowed very little time to stay current on the forum.
On SBG itself, we do freely acknowledge that the main site's reviews are dated, and we do try to point out the most current reviews when a question on a specific sword comes up. While the forum hasn't changed that much, the members have, and the way we do things has moved on, for the better I hope. It's not the way things are done here, but it works for us, and we do try to do the best we can with what we've got, within the ethos we try to maintain on our board.
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David Lewis Smith
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| Posted: Wed 21 Mar, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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I am in all likelihood the second to the last person that should post to this thread.
From the outside looking in there are some forums that appear, appear mind you, to be nothing more than a business venture. Reviews posted, swords photographed and cataloged give the impression that selling a product is the goal rather than the study of what makes a sword in fact a 'sword'.
Add to this that there are so few of us compared to the rest of the world's interests and hobbies. Tthe rest of the world seems interested in computers, fast cars and nudity. We few who appreciate a mindset that has less to do with a martial nature in all of us and more to do with honor and chivalry gather in a few small rooms across the internet. Unfortunately there is a fortune to be made from those small rooms where, 'we few, we lucky few', gather. Misconceptions are taken advantage of, counterfeits are produced and the ahistorical becomes the norm. Anyone who nay says a product is slandered, their word questioned and accusations fly. Eventually legation becomes the battle cry and lawyers lay down their fees and only they gather in the proceeds. No one in the sword industry profits from this, neither collector nor manufacture.
Eventually honorable men remain silent. We know what happens then do we not? "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Harsh words? Lets rephrase that, "all that is necessary for the mediocre to profit is for knowledgeable men to remind silent".
Just an opinion mind you, mine, and that with out any sense of humility or shame.
David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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J. Hargis
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| Posted: Wed 21 Mar, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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David Lewis Smith says:
| Quote: | I am in all likelihood the second to the last person that should post to this thread.
Anyone who nay says a product is slandered, their word questioned and accusations fly. Eventually legation becomes the battle cry and lawyers lay down their fees and only they gather in the proceeds. |
Hmm. Most timely.
I posted essentially the same critique of Darksword Armoury at the SBG forum, with the same disaster dagger photos, that I posted here. I titled the thread 'Darksword Armoury / a farce revealed'. Apparently the use of the word 'farce', which we all know is a form of comedy, and the straight forward language, with no name calling mind you, upset the moderators to no end. In various PMs to me they claimed that I was "borderline libelous" in my critique of Darksword Armoury. Astounding.
IMO, the SBG forum was protecting DSA from further real life accounts as in the two consecutive bad products that I received from Darksword and had the nerve to complain about. This certainly supports my view that SBG protects those from which they derive advertising income, in this case, Darksword Armoury. It's difficult to believe any claims of unbiased behavior from SBG.
When it was all said and done I did ask them to remove my registration and was out of there. A vile experience.
I have noticed that myArmoury seems to be less legally sensitive, i.e.:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25539
| Quote: | John Barnett swords are truly apalling, way below Windlass in terms of quality, and should be avoided. Some of the components can be harvested to make other, better, things, but on the whole they are just awful.
I have re-worked many of his company's products for the guys in my fencing salle, mainly to turn an otherwise unusable sword into something that can possibly be used. Unfortunately, because they are so cheap, there are many out there who have bought them thinking they have a bargain. You get what you pay for: the blunt swords are overweight crowbars, the sharp swords are very poorly tempered, the materials used are very low grade and the construction is very much to a slim budget.
Caveat emptor |
Regards, Jon
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Jean-Carle Hudon
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| Posted: Thu 22 Mar, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: libel & litigation |
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Two cents worth : for there to be litigation, one would have to sue. The person suing would allege slander or libel, and the person being sued would offer up a defense of truth. If something is said in a public forum, and is proved to be true, there can be no libel. If I say so-and-so is a child molester, and have the court records to proove it, well then the fellow has no standing to sue me however badly I may have hurt his feelings... If I show a defect in a product, the thing speaks for itself : there is a defect in the product. If I go further and allege that all the products suffer from the same defect, I better have the research to back up my claim. One lemon doesn't automatically give rise to a general recall.
The basic problem with the Darksword complaints is that the thread covers two distinct subject matters. On the one hand you have consumers complaining of shoddy workmanship, or after-sale service when a product is believed to be deficient; on the other hand, there is a feeling expressed that this situation might be linked to the seller's lack of control of his own product. In other words, he would just be shipping stuff that he did not make himself, which would serve as a rational explanation of why the deficient sword or dagger was sent off in the first place.
The owner has claimed that he in fact makes his own products. This has not been challenged, nor verified to any extent. It then leaves us with those cases where consumers have not been satisfied either by the workmanship, or the owner's reaction to complaints about the situation. That is a case by case scenario where each consumer is free to represent the facts that he has personal knowledge of : I received a broken toy, the blade wasn't sharp as requested, there was rust, improper welding, etc. Further the after sale service is open game also, always with regards to facts: I requested my money back and this was refused, I repaired the thing myself, I donated it to a scrap metal charity drive, it was returned and a proper replacement arrived forthwith, etc..
Libel only happens when you claim things that you cannot substantiate, drawing far reaching conclusions from insufficient data. My two cents are up.
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 22 Mar, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Jon,
We are as legally sensitive as anyone else, in that fighting one lawsuit (even a frivolous one) could wipe us out as there is no cash to fight it. The cases you're referring to are different. The Southern Swords info is a response to a query, is referring to products, and is based on a number of firsthand observations. A thread provocatively titled "Darksword Armoury / a farce revealed" calls the entire company a farce. I totally understand the moderator Odingaard's response. We'd likely have done the same had you posted a thread with that title here.
As for SBG protecting DSA, that's a bold claim. There are other threads that critique DSA that have been left to stand. They are less provocatively worded than yours. Sometimes the issue moderators have with something has more to do with tone than content.
As I'm not a moderator there, I have no info on why they responded as they did. I'm simply stating opinion based on reading the thread and knowing how we do things here.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Sean O Stevens
Location: Grovetown, GA Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu 22 Mar, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | Jon,
We are as legally sensitive as anyone else, in that fighting one lawsuit (even a frivolous one) could wipe us out as there is no cash to fight it. The cases you're referring to are different. The Southern Swords info is a response to a query, is referring to products, and is based on a number of firsthand observations. A thread provocatively titled "Darksword Armoury / a farce revealed" calls the entire company a farce. I totally understand the moderator Odingaard's response. We'd likely have done the same had you posted a thread with that title here.
As for SBG protecting DSA, that's a bold claim. There are other threads that critique DSA that have been left to stand. They are less provocatively worded than yours. Sometimes the issue moderators have with something has more to do with tone than content.
As I'm not a moderator there, I have no info on why they responded as they did. I'm simply stating opinion based on reading the thread and knowing how we do things here. |
^ Bingo.
Chad pretty much called in in the above. I have read many, MANY threads that had some very negative things to say about Darksword Armory on SBG... and those threads were allowed to exist and can still be found... both on the new site and the old one. Just as is the case here, Darksword seems to have a polarizing effect there as well. I have also seen negative threads about other products that are sold in the SBG store left alone on the SBG forum.
Even the SBG Katana, which were created and sold with the SBG name all over them, have received harsh critique and that critique was allowed to remain in the forums.
It is in the title of the thread and the tone of the comments the problem laid. Instead of writing a title like 'My recent experience with DarkSword Armory' and then just showing the pictures and posting the facts... the title and tone suggest an attack on the Maker/Vendor... and that is not allowed on ANY vendor on those forums, regardless of if their products are sold by the site or not.
There is a way to present ones opinions and facts without appearing like your looking for a fight... and when you do that, your experience will get a lot more consideration and less moderator over-site.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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David Lewis Smith
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| Posted: Thu 22 Mar, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nathan: If my statement was construed as that I apologize as it was not my intent.
David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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A Pevost
Location: Canada Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun 02 Nov, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: what you you guys think of DSA today? (2014) |
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hope its okay post even if the thread's 2 years old...
So, hey, i'm new.
Not just to the site but to sword collecting & sword-related knowledge in general.
So this might be a little long.....
ive been browsing this site (and this thread) a for a while and overall, it appears that no one here is at all fond of <$300 - $400 - $500 swords; specifically DSA products.
As a noob and a full-time College student, i find this a tiny bit disheartening as it appears that unless i spend what amounts to 2 full years worth of college tuition i'm gonna end up being that sucker with the "broken-in-2-weeks" piece of crap sword thats good for nothing but wall hanging... Please don't even think of mentioning albion, as god-like as people say they are. I simply cannot afford it, and if it's gonna cost >$1000, it'd better be able to cook me a bacon breakfast aswell.
As it stands, for the past 2-3 years i've been incrementally shopping for a good/decent quality & decent priced sword that i could feel proud to own (DSA, Gen2/Legacy Arms, etc...). As a resident of Quebec, Canada, i immediately hooked to Darksword Armories and the awesome idea that they make all their weapons by hand, less than 15 minutes from my home.
As a noob, i see no inherent flaws in their craftsmanship, in fact i enjoy seeing "forging marks" on the blade and so what if the fuller if off by 0.5mm? It was made by a human being after all...
I have actually had the opportunity to see the final work in person. I took a hour or so last Friday to visit their workshop & gallery in person. And i must say i was very impressed (once again, from a noob perceptive) with their products. I met Mr. Azerad and he's very much a gentleman and he's very polite. He showed me everything i asked to see and taught me a thing or two about bladed weapons as well. When i asked if the fittings were indeed made of steel, he was all too willing to go fetch a magnet from his office to prove it. I held a couple swords (btw, i'd never held a sword before, AND I LOVE IT) and i had no quarrels with anything i saw there. And anything he didn't have on display, he went and found a work-in-progress of the specific model to let me hold and look at.
I'm pretty settled on their historically accurate-ISH (the guard is -iffy) Danish 2 handed sword.
I want to make sure i'm making the right decision given my budget ($300-$500 WITH TAXES & SHIPPING), the fact that my budget won't be changing for a good while and the fact that i can actually see and approve of the final product as i hand my stack of bills/check over the counter and NOT have shipping charges.
Has anyone had RECENT experience with their products? if so, was it positive? negative? It appears to me that they have addressed whatever issues the community had found with their products over the past few years.
I do not believe in experts. Experts are a fictitious race of beings who, according to mythology, know absolutely everything there is to learn about a particular subject.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Sun 02 Nov, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: what you you guys think of DSA today? (2014) |
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| A Pevost wrote: | | I'm pretty settled on their historically accurate-ISH (the guard is -iffy) Danish 2 handed sword. |
If historical accuracy is your goal, then that sword is probably a very poor choice. The guard, pommel, grip, blade, and overall proportions of the piece are all dissimilar to what history has left us for that type. There are more historically accurate examples in their catalog should you want to stay with DSA.
Personally, I'd look at the offerings from Windlass or Valiant Armoury. You might even save a few bucks.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Pevost, I would like to test a DSA sword once, but before I have one in hand, I can only say a lot less people had issues with Hanwei Tinker, Valiant Armoury, or even Windlass swords, although with Windlass you do relatively often get loose fittings or something similar... But I do understand you are attracted to a sword made close to you and if you inspect a sword you are going to buy in person, go for it...
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A Pevost
Location: Canada Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: Re: what you you guys think of DSA today? (2014) |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | A Pevost wrote: | | I'm pretty settled on their historically accurate-ISH (the guard is -iffy) Danish 2 handed sword. |
If historical accuracy is your goal, then that sword is probably a very poor choice. The guard, pommel, grip, blade, and overall proportions of the piece are all dissimilar to what history has left us for that type. There are more historically accurate examples in their catalog should you want to stay with DSA.
Personally, I'd look at the offerings from Windlass or Valiant Armoury. You might even save a few bucks. |
I see.. Thanks for the heads up! Historical accuracy, for me isn't a MUST, however its a nice thing to have if the particular piece is indeed historically accurate. To be honest, the day I went to visit, I was fully prepared to purchase the Feanor 2 handed sword (a pure fantasy design) but decided to reconsider as soon as I saw the Danish.
My main concern is the overall quality of craftsmanship. Though I'm not a back yard cutter, I would like my wallhanger to "talk the talk" but also "walk the walk", if you know what I mean.
I do not believe in experts. Experts are a fictitious race of beings who, according to mythology, know absolutely everything there is to learn about a particular subject.
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Mike Jia
Industry Professional
Location: Canberra Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 5:56 am Post subject: |
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there's been a lot of talk recently about DSA improving their swords. I don't think weight and handling are going to be as horrible as they used to be. Also, if you live right next to DSA's warehouse, I'm sure Eyal would be more than happy to give you the best pick of the bunch, and avoid all the quality control issues brought up in this thread.
For the price of a DSA danish, I'd personally prefer to get something from Valiant Armoury. website here: http://customswordshoppe.com/
and facebook page here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Valiant-Armoury-Custom-Sword-Shoppe/105805759496056?fref=ts
Sonny (the owner) is more than happy to work with customers on personalized orders.
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A Pevost
Location: Canada Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Jia wrote: | there's been a lot of talk recently about DSA improving their swords. I don't think weight and handling are going to be as horrible as they used to be. Also, if you live right next to DSA's warehouse, I'm sure Eyal would be more than happy to give you the best pick of the bunch, and avoid all the quality control issues brought up in this thread.
For the price of a DSA danish, I'd personally prefer to get something from Valiant Armoury. website here: http://customswordshoppe.com/
and facebook page here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Valiant-Armoury-Custom-Sword-Shoppe/105805759496056?fref=ts
Sonny (the owner) is more than happy to work with customers on personalized orders. |
Hey! Thanks! I like what I see. I'll definitely consider Vaniant Armoury for this (my first) sword or for my second sword purchase.
I do not believe in experts. Experts are a fictitious race of beings who, according to mythology, know absolutely everything there is to learn about a particular subject.
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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At a budget of $300-500, getting a Hanwei Tinker (of whichever model you find most interesting) would probably leave you with just enough money to buy a good sword book or two. That's another choice worth considering.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: what you you guys think of DSA today? (2014) |
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| A Pevost wrote: | | So this might be a little long..... ive been browsing this site (and this thread) a for a while and overall, it appears that no one here is at all fond of <$300 - $400 - $500 swords; specifically DSA products. |
No one? That's a pretty sweeping generalization. There are people here who like all price ranges. Please don't paint everyone with such a large brush.
This forum does have a general focus on how items stack up when compared to historical pieces. It's part of the description that hangs below our logo on every page. But we don't ignore or hate certain price ranges as a whole.
| Quote: | | Please don't even think of mentioning albion, as god-like as people say they are. |
Who said "god-like?" Albion has their fans. And their detractors. I personally like the stuff I have from them (bought several years ago now), but they've gotten too expensive for me. They've had a handful of quality issues that have gone public; I'm waiting to see how they get resolved. They do some things really well. So do other companies. There are plenty of other fish in the sea, as they say.
| Quote: | | As a noob, i see no inherent flaws in their craftsmanship, in fact i enjoy seeing "forging marks" on the blade and so what if the fuller if off by 0.5mm? It was made by a human being after all... |
Check out this thread for a view of a flaw in craftsmanship: http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=30929
My personal issues with DSA stem more from hype and marketing that is questionable than from the products themselves. They claim a high level of historical accuracy, but some products are pretty far off in ways that make little to no sense. They (still!) claim museum and/or historical attributions that have been proven false. They have copied other makers' non-historical works, a violation of intellectual property rights. Etc.
As for the products, they can sometimes have many of the same issues as others in the price range: clunky design, shapes and proportions are off, weight/taper/handling issues, scabbards that in some cases are historical for some period (just not for the sword it's paired with), occasional build quality issues, etc.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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