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J Helmes
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Location: Lanark Highlands Ontario Canada
Joined: 06 Mar 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 12:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Tim, the pommel does indeed differ slightly from the original. As I was shaping this one I was concerned about the ballance. I did not want to to make the sword too top heavy even if this is a reproduction. So I left the upper pommel thicker that the original sword. However, that being said If Doug has any concernes about the look I'd be more than happy to modify this one for him.

Jeff
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jeff (since the discussion started here, I'll answer here).

I had a look back at the pictures and agree with Tim, and now what you have said, that the tips of the upper guard should be more narrow, making a more boat shape. That should not be a lot of work would it, since the pieces are still separate and not yet peened?

I know you're very worried about the PoB from past experiences, but I've said it before to you and will state it here publicly, I care more about historical accuracy than about static balance. Swords of this era could be brutes - although still manageable and dynamically balanced with the right mass distribution, which I think you have obtained from the numbers you have provided.

So please do address Tim's comment if you can - I promise that you will not be criticized (by me or anyone knowledgeable about this class of swords) for replicating the original characteristics of the sword!

Thanks Tim for pointing that out!

Regards, JD
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J Helmes
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Location: Lanark Highlands Ontario Canada
Joined: 06 Mar 2009

Posts: 120

PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ooops.Technical difficulties on my side. I'm trying to get pictures up.

Last edited by J Helmes on Fri 25 Nov, 2011 3:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff, you're one fast dude. I've resized your pictures so they can be posted directly into the frame (see below). I see that you've brought down the size of the outer lobes to bring it closer to the original (I'm surprised I missed this before, clearly this is more accurate). We can't see the full 3-D shape of the upper guard from this angle, but it looks more beveled toward the ends so I'm assuming you made it more canoe shaped?


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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WOW! That was fast! I think it looks more canoe shaped. Somehow the character of the 2 part pommel changes with that slight bit of reshaping. I was concerned that I was nitpicking as it was lovely before but it appears to be truer to the original now. I look forward to seeing the grip, especially now that I know there is a surprise involved! Fantastic!
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Before this comes to a finish, I thought some of you might enjoy seeing this other sword, depicted on a large crucifix from the Western Scottish Highlands. It's much like many of those on 13th-15th century grave memorials in the region, but has an exceptionally high centre lobe on the pommel. I was thinking of using this to inspire a custom project, but at this point I have 3 type M pommels (Albion Caithness, Windlass Transitional Viking, and the new project) so I think not. Perhaps someone else would like to use it. -JD


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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Nov, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By the way, as I said in the introduction, its pretty easy to see how the type of Western Highland sword posted above might have 'developed' from earlier medieval swords like the one being replictated here. Few have survived but many are depected on grave stones/slabs. I don't want to post too many from my picture collection because some might be copyrighted. If you're interested in this type of sword, just google image 'Scottish Grave Slabs' and dozens will show up. -JD
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Thomas Reitmeier





Joined: 23 Apr 2007

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe a little too late, but I found this: Sword, Northern Europe, circa 1100

http://www.artnet.de/magazine/antike-waffen-u.../images/2/
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks interesting but I think it's not a medieval sword. Weird decoration on the blade, "too good to be true impression"...
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Reitmeier wrote:
Maybe a little too late, but I found this: Sword, Northern Europe, circa 1100

http://www.artnet.de/magazine/antike-waffen-u.../images/2/


Thankyou Thomas, that's very interesting. But as Luka says I think its unlikely to be a real medieval sword. It seems to share a number of the features of the sword under discussion here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=24570 i.e., mis-matched features, unusual decorations, condition unusually good. They even share common features like the surface condition and nearly impossibly preserved grip. In this new case, it looks like someone made a sword based on the overall look of the 12thc Cawood sword, emulated a much older type X blade similar to the river Witham Viking sword, and then added some weird out-of-period decorations on the cross and blade. Some other little signs are off as well - like the detailing in the pommel lobes (Interesting, compared to the final touches that Jeff put on ours).

As Peter Johnsson said in that other thread, it seems like someone is trying to make a fast buck re-writing history.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some more updates here - details of the pommel, and wooden core of grip wrapped in fine hemp. Jeff has also done more fine touching on the blade and other steel components. Looking very nice Jeff! Happy


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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, that's the shape of the pommel! Great job Jeff! This is getting better and better JD! Another of your swords for me to envy... Wink
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 4:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim Lison wrote:
Yeah, that's the shape of the pommel! Great job Jeff! This is getting better and better JD! Another of your swords for me to envy... Wink


Thanks again Holmes. Wink

Its good to see Jeff's work is also getting lots of appreciation (from some illustrious peers) over at bladesmith forum. http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=21588
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec, 2011 11:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Finishing off work on the grip before peening things together...


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William Swiger




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice. Beautiful sword. Cool
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks William. Here's one that shows more detail on the grip. Jeff's still working on the ruinic inscription.


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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks great J.D.

The bronze bands give some flair to the grip, wdding to the uniqueness of the design. What is the inspiration of the inscribed lines on the bands? I look forward to both seeing more pictures and especially, to seeing it in person.

Are we looking at about 950 AD here, or am I off?

Added- just re-read the initial post and saw that 1100 or even a bit later would be a better guess. Interesting how that pommel type held on.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Jeremy. The inscriptions are inspired by the original - perhaps seen best on the Vikverir web site - and the translation of ruins provided in Oakeshott, although some liberties will be taken. -JD
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sword done I think, and scabbard nearing completion.

Jeff has reconstructed the scabbard style as much as possible from the pieces found with the original sword, filling in the gaps with some knowledge of period scabbards and some imagination.

Jeff had some help from a colleague in translating the ruins in the proper 12th century style.



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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice one JD!!! That is really looking good. The scabbard is really nice. Are you going to have a belt made with it? Seems only fair... I'm looking forward to your impressions when you get it.
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