[Hugh Knight]

[Hugh Knight]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hi Stephen,

Circling back, I'd recommend reading Ramon Lull's chivalric treatise for one view of how intertwined faith and the chivalric arts are. I recognize this isn't exactly like the EMA equivalent you're likely thinking of, but it should be illuminating nonetheless.

Cheers,

Christian

[Adam Bodorics]

Speaking of prayers, do we have actual sources about their wording? More precisely, was there any that has resemblances with invocatory ritual texts? I don't mean the simple "cliche" variant of "XY lend me your power to do whatever" often seen in literature, I mean the more or less standard structure of invocations used by those people in other fields. If there's evidence of such prayers, then we have a bit more direct connection of "mysticism" and WMA. Without any hard proof and based only on logic (which tends to fail when applied to medieval people) the existence of such prayers is likely, as invocation rituals have a strong psychological effect on the operator, and it would be in line with the practices of "civilians" of the time.
...
To the less direct connections, I think it would be wise to remember the number of "sacred" images, texts and mottoes on both arms and armour, both of that time, and later on. Given that there were non-religiously decorated pieces as well, and the religiously decorated pieces are present in every level of quality, I think it's clear that they were put there because their owners believed in them - non-religious decor wasn't frowned upon, so it's not because they had to go with the flow. IIRC there even were relic-holders on some swords, and possibly even on some breastplates - I might remember totally wrong though, Christian stuff isn't exactly my forte.

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hi Adam,

I can't speak to prayer wording, though you've certainly piqued my curiosity. I'll see if I can dig something up here...

As for decoration, note how the large dueling shields seen in various German manuscripts almost invariably have crosses painted on them. Certainly, this is not the heraldry of either combatant. Of course, if both combatants bear the cross, it begs the question of what benefit it had...

Best regards,

Christian

[Alex Spreier]

[Colt Reeves]

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Dear all,

Here's a link to one of my favorite 15th c. manuscripts:

http://www.ubs.sbg.ac.at/sosa/handschriften/MIII36.htm

It's a German work on the the seven planets, the seven liberal arts, and the general medieval cosmological scheme. Several points worth noting:

1. The manuscript, dating from the mid-15th century, is reminiscent in style and presentation to some of our surviving fight books.

2. It presents a holistic view of how the world was viewed, and how that world's knowledge was taught.

3. The seven planets, along with their associations with zodical signs, the ages of man, and the canonical hours, are presented, in order from Heaven downward.

4. Bits of verse, common to Planetenkinder (Children of the Planets) lore accompany each image, describing that planet's nature, and therefore the nature of those born under its influence.

5. Following this, the Seven Liberal Arts are represented, reversing the order, now moving from lowest to highest.

6. The liberal arts images show a wheel being constructed for the first three plates, which describe the Trivium - the studies of Grammar, Rhetoric, and Logic. Once that foundation of learning is established, that wheel constructed, we move to...

7. The presentation of the Quadrivium - the 'external' sciences of Arithmetic, Geometry, Music, and Astronomy.

8. The Quadrivium is comprised essentially of permutations of the study of 'number': Arithmetic is the study of pure number, Geometry the study of numbers in space, Music the study of numbers in time, and Astronomy the study of number in time and space (aka, the 'music of the spheres').

9. The image that follows, on f. 8r, is most fascinating. The whole scheme of learning appears here. The ladies representing the Quadrivium support the completed wheels of a cart, drawn by three ladies representing the Trivium (all are labeled). The cart bears Sacred Theology, and is spurred on by the famous Scholastic Master Peter Lombard, who represents Philosophy.

10. Thus we see the whole progression: You study the Trivium so you can study the Quadrivium; you study that so you can study Philosophy and then Theology. Or, put another way: you can't learn about God without learning philosophy; you can't learn that unless you understand the physical world; and you can't understand that unless you understand yourself and your interactions with your fellow man.

11. The last page ties all that together with the physical arrangement of Creation. With the great Doctor of the Church Albertus Magnus instructing us below, we see the sphere of Earth, surrounded progressively by the those of Water, Air, and Fire, then by those of the seven planets (each associated, btw, with one of the seven liberal arts), then finally the sphere of heaven, with the four winds blowing in from their respective directions. Heavenly power emanates from above/without to below/within, and in turn learning via the Scholastic approach takes us from Earth to God.

What's this all mean to fencing? Well, this was the paradigm of the world they lived in, and much of this lore accompanies and/or parallels the manuscript tradition from which we derive our historic fencing techniques.

All the best,

Christian

[James Head]

Hi Christian. I'm glad you elaborated on the heavy religious tone found in Talhoffer's works (in comparison to other masters and manuals). I had often thought the same thing, but you compiled the examples in a much better manner.

Also, since we have been throwing out the names of specific medieval personalities, I wanted to take a moment and 'stick up' for Chaucer. It is common for modern readers to paint him as some closet sceptic and Atheist. But they all seem to forget that The Parson's Tale is the closing narrative of Canterbury tales and that Chaucer's counterpoints to religious corruption are often strikingly similar to Wycliff and Lollardy. Taking the entire body of Chaucer's work into account, it becomes far more likely that he was a closet Lollard than a closet Atheist.

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Exactly James - bemoaning the church's corruption hardly makes one an atheist.

And, really, Chaucer has a poke in the eye for just about everyone in the Tales - including likely himself.

Yours,

Christian

[Randall Pleasant]

[Paul Hansen]

[Greg Mele]

[James Head]

Another related issue I wanted to mention is our modern tendency to simplify history (particularly the Middle Ages) into these segmented units that school children can easily understand, internalize, and then explain back to teachers and parents. I understand the purpose behind it. You can't spend an entire school year on Medieval History (although you could...) But it takes a lot of effort to break out of these codified blocks of history that we have packed away in our early memory. You can easily see the residual influence when we get into topics like this (history of the Church etc...)

A familiar modern mantra is to depict Medieval faith as being some repressive and backward class-code that was enforced by a tyrannical Christian empire. It is common to reference rampant witch burnings and a general Catholic abhorrence to science and knowledge as the general mentality of the time.

What some seem to forget is that although witchcraft and magic were considered sins throughout the Medieval era, they were only as bad as any other daily indiscretion. My favorite example of this is found in England's earliest surviving Fabliau, Dame Sirith and the Weeping Bitch. It treats the idea of being able to magically transform a person into an animal as a cruel and naughty thing to do, but no suggestion that such a person was in league with the devil etc... instead, witchcraft and magic is considered an every day type of nuisance.

It was not until the very end of what is commonly considered the Middle Ages that the concept of witchcraft, magic and devil worship as an assault upon the survival of Christian Europe became a serious issue. Malleus Maleficarum was not published until 1486, placing the true 'heyday' of Witch Hunting squarely in the realm of the Renaissance.

Likewise, the idea that science and knowledge was repressed by the Church is also silly. I love how the Renaissance is described as a time when great thinkers began to re-discover ancient texts of science and philosophy, blowing the roof off the Church's backward and superstitious ways. Who do you think had been archiving, transcribing, copying and preserving all those inflammatory manuscripts for centuries?

All that being said, I wanted to provide a great example of how the Medieval mind was able to think inclusively about issues that many modern folk would consider irreconcilable.

Here's a detail of a stained glass window found in the Chartres Cathedral.



From the bottom up, it shows...

June, July and August.

The specific 'Labor' related to each month. (Mowing Grass, Reaping Grain, Threshing Grain)

The Zodiac symbol related to each month. (Notice the shift in Zodiac signs from then to now...)

This is a running vertical series of images, with Christ sitting at the top. Clearly, a bright stained glass window was meant to be seen by everyone in the community. It is not in the same realm as some other 'hidden' cathedral artwork like gargoyles or grotesque misericords.

How could the symbols of a pagan Zodiac system be allowed inside an enormous Catholic cathedral? I don't fully understand, but it is clear that people back then (including church leaders) did not think the Zodiac was anti-christian. It makes more sense if you consider that most 'common' medieval folk still measured time by lunar and celestial movement. There were obviously recognizable groups of stars in the sky, with one group becoming more prominent than the others during any given month. Add a naming system to these constellations thad had been established for a millennia (at least), and you end up with a very efficient and useable time keeping method. My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that the emphasis on Zodiacal spirituality and prophecy did not re-surface until the Renaissance. Before that, it was just a circle of symbolic images and animals that comfortably coincided with one's real-life labors and activities.

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hi James,

Good stuff! A couple of notes though:

1. The zodiac is definitely associated with esoterica, and specifically divination, as early as at least the 12th century (and likely quite a bit before) in Europe. If you look at the manuscript I linked, the zodiac is hooked up with the planetary astrology and its attempts to categorize people and their destinies. Certainly, the zodiac is connected with Geomancy early on, so such associations can be traced to the 12th century (Gerard of Cremona).

2. The associations of the months and signs isn't how modern astronomy uses them, but is still the same system used in modern astrology. Cancer begins in June, etc. Note that Leo shares a split medallion with the month of July.

Good observations!

Yours,

Christian

[James Head]

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hi James,

I'm not sure, but will try to analyze this further.

Cheers!

CHT

[Greg Mele]

Nice post James. Also, it is a good idea for people to remember that what we call the scientific method was a product of the Church - the fact that said method then produced things it was not happy about is besides the point. Further, as you noted the witch craze is a product of the Renaissance, and some of its worst elements, actually belong to Protestantism and the Early Modern period.

Note, I'm not putting a value judgment on this, just agreeing that this idea of Medieval faith as being very narrowly defined and repressive, is simply not true. If anything, in many ways, Christian faith in the west in 1400 was more "big-tent" in some areas than it is not, and part of the Reformation was a refutation against this, as well as against decadence in the administration of the Church itself.

[Randall Pleasant]