| Author |
Message |
|
Peter O Zwart
Location: Ontario Canada Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 69
|
|
  |
 |
|
E. Storesund
|
 Posted: Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
 |
|
|
Good lord, those are some handsome looking blades in this thread. I must (!) have one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Fri 18 Nov, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: Question on original example |
|
|
Luka,
We are basing this piece of an example from a museum in the Netherlands ... I do not have the specs with me but I will try and get those posted over the weekend ...
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Fri 18 Nov, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: Evidence of horn Hilted Seax |
|
|
Paul,
I do not have a specific example to reference at this point ...
Honestly that was one of the reasons I started this thread ...
Thanks for your interest .
Tim
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
G Ezell
Industry Professional
Location: North Alabama Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sat 19 Nov, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've been watching this thread with interest, as I am a saxophile...
There are, to my understanding, two basic types of blades referred to as langsaxes.
There is the Nordic, or Scandinavian style, which has a relatively straight spine and the edge curves up to meet it at the point. These often were given full sword fitting, that is an upper and lower guard and pommel just like your typical 'viking' sword. The handles were short, and metal mounts are fairly common even if not mounted as swords. I tend to refer to these as single-edged swords. To complicate things, some were smaller than the swords, ranging in size from full swords down to the infamous 'viking women's knife'. I admit I do not know as much about these weapons as I would like.
Then, there is what I tend to think of as the 'Netherlands style' or 'German style' langsax. These had relatively straight edges, and backs curving down (or in the case of the British variant, angling down) to meet the edge. The points were, well, pointy. The few examples I've seen with surviving handles had very long handles compared to the Nordic type and contemporary swords, 8 to 10 inches of handle, like the earlier breitsax. Guards and pommels were likely nonexistent, or at least none have survived that I know of. Tangs are unpeinned, and blind...i.e. the tangs did not run the full length of the handle. Blades were wide, and thick, 'v' shaped in cross-section. These were a completely different breed than the Nordic style saxes.
This is an interesting example of the 'German style' langsax with an intact handle:
Carry on... 
" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec
https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
|
|
 |
|
|
Peter O Zwart
Location: Ontario Canada Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 69
|
| Posted: Sun 20 Nov, 2011 5:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | This is an interesting example of the 'German style' langsax with an intact handle: |
That is a very interesting example, it appears as though the sharp edge of the blade curves up toward the the spine, though I have seen some early examples that do that a little I have never seen it so pronounces as this. Do you know anything about the handle? it appears as though it is wire wrapped in some parts but not everywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
G Ezell
Industry Professional
Location: North Alabama Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sun 20 Nov, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know very little about it, and my attempts to learn more has so far been fruitless.
The handle appears to be one piece of cast bronze, to my eye.
I have yet to see a perfectly straight edge on a langsax, they all have some curvature, however slight. The main curvature is near the tip usually, with some having a subtle curve over the entire length of the cutting edge. Sometimes you have to hold a straight-edge up to it to see the curve, but it is always there. There may be one that is perfectly straight, but I haven't seen it yet...
Here a two nice examples from the Netherlands.
This is another nice example with a mostly intact handle.
" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec
https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Mon 21 Nov, 2011 4:48 am Post subject: Seax info |
|
|
Good morning
Thanks to you all for your interest and the information posted ... I am trying very hard not to drive myself(and Ryan)crazy with questions regarding his progress ... There have been some minor setbacks - Ryan`s power hammer went down and requires some repairs but progress is being made ... I am going to ask him to post pics of the process on this thread .
Keep well all.
Tim
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 21 Nov, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Question on original example |
|
|
| Tim Mathews wrote: | Luka,
We are basing this piece of an example from a museum in the Netherlands ... I do not have the specs with me but I will try and get those posted over the weekend ... |
Hello Tim,
I've not had time to join in on this thread. Which sax are you working on? I've actually handled a good deal of saxes here in the Netherlands, or at least seen them up close in the museums. So I may be able to give additional details. N.b. a few of the saxes that I've also got published do NOT match the dimensions in the publications, at least not when it comes to the thicknesses. So bare that in mind that these are not reliable.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Tue 22 Nov, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: Seax`s in Netherland museum |
|
|
Posted: Yesterday at 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Question on original example
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Mathews wrote:
Luka,
We are basing this piece of an example from a museum in the Netherlands ... I do not have the specs with me but I will try and get those posted over the weekend ...
Hello Tim,
I've not had time to join in on this thread. Which sax are you working on? I've actually handled a good deal of saxes here in the Netherlands, or at least seen them up close in the museums. So I may be able to give additional details. N.b. a few of the saxes that I've also got published do NOT match the dimensions in the publications, at least not when it comes to the thicknesses. So bare that in mind that these are not reliable.
_________________
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Hello- Thanks very much for your post ... I hope to have time this weekend to dig out the information on the exact piece we are using as a model ...Thanks again for your interest and kind offer !
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
Johan Gemvik
|
| Posted: Tue 29 Nov, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Paul Mullins wrote: | | Is there any evidence to support stag antler handles on seaxs? I am curious, because I am planning to make my own seax soon and I am still deciding on the handle material. |
Yes, at least to some type of antler was used.
I've seen several made from what's mentioned as "horn" in swedish museums, but in swedish that encompasses antler and stag as well as cow horn and at least one looked like antler to me, while another was more like bovine horn.
This is interesting to me as well, because one of my seaxes has a handle made with antler, and I have a piece of solid cow horn I was thinking of using for a new seax I'm currently making.
I've also been lookng into blade thicknesses and geometry on swedish finds. Smaller knives are almost always triangular cross section and thick backed (3 mm or more) in the finds where you can make out more than just a formless lump. One knife I've seen has the modern flat sides and wedge edge, I think it's about 2 mm thick but I only have photos to go from. This one looks just like the average mora knife blade today actually, which could be very appealing to people making their first viking knife. You can get a cheap blade, grind off the makers mark and just assemble a decently historical knife. I'll make one like that so people can see what I mean.
Still most were triangular cross section and this goes for larger seaxes too, at least from Sweden.
Regarding the seax I posted photos of earlier. I have a friend who casts bronze and I can make originals for casting from sculpey or something similar so I have ongoing plans to make the fittings.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
|
|
|
|
|
David Huggins
|
| Posted: Tue 29 Nov, 2011 5:04 am Post subject: Seax |
|
|
The only A-S knife I have seen with horn/bone/ivory is a very small knife, almost a pen knife and described as such. It does have interlace decoration on the handle.
best
Dave
and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Tue 29 Nov, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: Elk Horn for hilt on Seax |
|
|
Hello all
I hope to meet with Ryan on Thursday and give him the Antler ... The primary concern at this point is that the marrow will be to thick on the Antler to use ... If that is the case we will look at using sections of the Antler for scales for the hilt ...
Thanks again for all the input !
Best
Tim
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Mon 19 Dec, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello all,
For anyone who is interested ... The Elk Antler is not going to work for hilt material - we are thinking wood wrapped in rayskin with bronze rings in the center of the hilt and at the point where the hilt meets the crosspiece and also where it meets the pommel ... Ryan was having issues with the iron for the billets and is going to use 1050 and L6 ...
This conversation took place right after Thanksgiving afer a few single malt scotches so if there is an error in the nomenclature it is on my end - not Ryan`s ... With the Holidays upon us we have not been able to converse much but I am going to try and attach a rough sketch of what we are doing ... Subject to change ...
Thanks in advance for your comments,feedback and suggestions .
Best
Tim
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Mon 19 Dec, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: Seax sketch |
|
|
I am having trouble with the attachment ...
I beg your pardon ... I will try from Home this evening .
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
James Barker
Location: Ashburn VA Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 365
|
| Posted: Tue 20 Dec, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
All I have to say is wow. This thread and all the threads it leads too really filled in many questions I had on seaxs and the reconstruction methods of the scabbards.
James Barker
Historic Life http://www.historiclife.com/index.html
Archer in La Belle Compagnie http://www.labelle.org/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Mathews
Location: St Paul MN Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 172
|
| Posted: Tue 20 Dec, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: Seax material correction |
|
|
Hello all ,
I am unable to to attach the sketch as of yet - I have it in pdf format and am having trouble converting to jpeg ...
At any rate as I feared I was incorrect on the materials ... It will be 1080 and L6 ...
Thanks again for all the encouragement,feedback and suggestions.
Best
Tim
Tim Mathews
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic