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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Double and triple fullers pre-1300 Reply to topic
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Double and triple fullers pre-1300         Reply with quote

I am looking for any examples of swords featuring double or triple fullers dating between 1050 and 1300. The only examples I have been able to find are Oakeshott X.6 and XIII.1 and one viking sword shown on a thread on this site. This may be a hopeless search, but maybe someone here can help me.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's a sword with multiple fullers from the Bayerisches Armeemuseum in Ingolstadt that has a Brazil nut pommel, and is supposed to date from the close of the 12th century to perhaps the beginning of the 13th. It features three fullers down the strong of the blade, but only the central middle fuller extends two thirds of the way down the blade.
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Awesome! That is exactly what I am looking for. Now if I can just find a picture. I am working on a blade that started out as a XVIa with triple fullers but that I am grinding into a thinner lenticular section. By the time I am done I think that the outer two fullers will be much shorter and less distinct than the central fuller. I really wanted to but some sort of brazil-nut pommel on it but wanted to find some historical documentation for such a hilt on such a blade, and now I have it! Thank you Craig.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Woodruff wrote:
Awesome! That is exactly what I am looking for. Now if I can just find a picture. I am working on a blade that started out as a XVIa with triple fullers but that I am grinding into a thinner lenticular section. By the time I am done I think that the outer two fullers will be much shorter and less distinct than the central fuller. I really wanted to but some sort of brazil-nut pommel on it but wanted to find some historical documentation for such a hilt on such a blade, and now I have it! Thank you Craig.


I have some photos of this sword, but I believe that the original photographer requested I keep them private. Therefore, let me suggest that you try to contact the musuem directly yourself; perhaps they might be able to help you. For now, I can tell you that it has a wide blade which tapers to a very spatulate point. It features a wide Oakeshott Type 1 guard that appears to be wider than the grip is long, and a grip that is around the same length of the swords shown in the Geibig article Type 11 and Type 12 photos. It has a Geibig 16v.I Brazil nut pommel capping off the end. All three fullers appear to be quite shallow. My guess is that, given the truncated version of Geibig's typology that appears in the myArmoury article, this sword is best classified as a Type 12, although it's not a perfect fit, since the blade seems wider at the strong, but becomes similarly narrow towards the point.
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, with a description that detailed I hardly need a photo.
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Because of the description I badly need a photo... Wink Peter Johnsson posted a photo once but it was low quality, you couldn't see anything but the outline of the sword...
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Eric G.




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps look at the Albion Vigil.

On their website it says this:

Quote:
For aficionados of the European sword, this weapon is instantly recognizable. The design is the result of a hands-on study of a famous and much admired sword in a world renown collection.

To hold the original sword in one's hand is awe inspiring: it is a living testimony to the skill of the master who made it. Even though the Vigil is extremely close in all its measurements and proportions, some small details has been intentionally changed or left out. This is to honor the wishes of those responsible for the collection in which it presently resides.
It does share all dynamic properties as well as overall character in line, shape and proportion with its awesome predecessor.


I'm not sure what sword the Vigil is a copy of, but I bet that it would not be too hard to find out on this forum.

Eric Gregersen
www.EricGregersen.com
Knowledge applied is power.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Gregersen wrote:
Perhaps look at the Albion Vigil.

On their website it says this:

Quote:
For aficionados of the European sword, this weapon is instantly recognizable. The design is the result of a hands-on study of a famous and much admired sword in a world renown collection.

To hold the original sword in one's hand is awe inspiring: it is a living testimony to the skill of the master who made it. Even though the Vigil is extremely close in all its measurements and proportions, some small details has been intentionally changed or left out. This is to honor the wishes of those responsible for the collection in which it presently resides.
It does share all dynamic properties as well as overall character in line, shape and proportion with its awesome predecessor.


I'm not sure what sword the Vigil is a copy of, but I bet that it would not be too hard to find out on this forum.


Eric,

Albion's post about the sword being instantly recognizable is an allusion to the fact that it appears in Ewart Oakeshott's Records of the Medieval Sword. It is also shown in the Type X myArmoury article, and can be seen here: http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_spotx07.jpg
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The only other multi-fuller sword I know from the high medieval period is drawn in Fig. 56 of SAC. It has a double fuller, single-hand grip, type 1 cross, and type F pommel. Unfortunately only half the blade is drawn so it might be an XII or XIII blade. The only other information was that it was found in Hungary and there is a reference to a very old article.

I'm also a big fan of multi-fuller blades and lament that so few have come to light from this historical period, let alone in replicas. Both Albion and Ollin have their versions of the river Witham sword (I own one at the moment). Angus Trim has some multi-fuller XII/XIII swords that are loosely inspired by originals, and I used to have a windlass crusader sword.

I was recently doodling a composite of historical multi-fuller swords and thinking of having it replicated, but this has not hit the top of my list. I would really like to see an historical high medieval multi-fuller sword that was 'just right'.

-JD
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig, what would a "just right" high medieval sword look like? The one I am working on actually started out as a Hanwei Mercenary blade. It has gone through a number of radical transformations and is barely recognzable as such now. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get a little more done on it. I am considering either an F or N pommel, but I may do a wheel pommel.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 3:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Woodruff wrote:
Craig, what would a "just right" high medieval sword look like? The one I am working on actually started out as a Hanwei Mercenary blade. It has gone through a number of radical transformations and is barely recognzable as such now. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get a little more done on it. I am considering either an F or N pommel, but I may do a wheel pommel.


I think you were referring to my post? I guess its a personal thing. I would rather base a sword on an existing example, but with the limited # of survivers of multi-fuller swords from this period I haven't been able to find one that 'bangs' for me - I like the blade, but not the pommel, etc. I would like to see what you come up with, and perhaps one day I can come back with one of my own. Good luck. Happy
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 4:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just came across this double-fullered Lithuanian sword:

http://www.club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/books/kazak...9_orig.jpg
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JD,

Do you know when that sword is dated to?
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D., I agree with you, none of the mult-fullered swords I have seen are quite what I want to do. Basically, my project is to combine features that are found on 12th-13th century swords but are rare- multi-fullers, shoulders at blade base and some sort of somewhat unusual hilt. I want the sword to be a real one-of-a-kind oddity that still has some historical validity.

Last edited by Scott Woodruff on Sat 18 Jun, 2011 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
JD,

Do you know when that sword is dated to?


The Hungarian or Lithuanian? In either case I don't know - Oakeshott says nothing and I can't read Lithuanian!

But to me the Hungarian sword has a distinct mid-13th century look, maybe a bit earlier, and perhaps the same for the Lithuanian sword although its harder to judge.
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All the swords discussed on adjacent pages are 12th century.
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