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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Mon 26 Sep, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, more eye candy for me while I wait for it to arrive.   
So after you took the first grip apart did you find clues to confirm any of your theories why the grip was " creaking " ?
I assume that the first grip was probably very solid but I think the creaking would have annoyed me even knowing that it wasn't a serious problem ..... it's one of those " nails on the blackboard " sounds that can raise the hairs on one's arms and make one grit one's teeth. 
By the way Michael's had told me about this grip issue and let me know in advance that he wanted to re-do the grip and asked me about it before doing it: We agreed that the look of the grip should be the same as Michael was very happy with it's original look and I didn't have any preferences for something different, but it was very considerate of Michael to let me know before re-doing the grip so that I could participate in the decision.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 27 Sep, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I did find a gap in the handle that didn't show signs of epoxy, but I can't be 100% sure of the cause since I used a hammer and chisel to break through the leather and crack apart the wood. The wood core is wrapped in a fine cotton cord so I have no doubts that the grip would have survived just about anything it would have been put through, but I didn't feel that a crackling grip on a custom sword is not something that is acceptable.
Since Jean had already paid for the sword when the problem came to light, and my role had shifted to caretaker until shipping, I think that Jean's involvement in any alterations or changes was key. I feel that being a custom maker, one of the main things to be aware of is not that I am self employed, but working for the customer to bring their dreams and visions into reality. My role is best described as a self reasoning tool in this process, and the customers needs and expectations are paramount. 
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 08 Oct, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Just received the sword and it's really impressive and very surprising in so many ways that I am going to wait a few days before getting into a more detailed post about it, but it has made me re-think a lot of my assumptions about swords in general and even more so how this sword type has unique and contradictory qualities: A great deal of " dissonance " in the ways one expects it to feel due to it's great size in profile and great thinness in distal taper. ( Dissonance in a good way ).
Short version: I like it and it's an impressive " tour de force " in producing such a wide and thin blade that still has a lot of presence and not too " floppy/bendy ". ( Scary SCARY sword. ).
I can compare this sword to " Ice cream ": It's like not having tasted anything like it before i.e. first time eating chocolate ice cream ...... you only thought you knew ice cream ( swords ) from all the other flavours, but this one is a completely different taste. ( Giant sharpened feather like scalpel with good presence ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William P
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| Posted: Sun 09 Oct, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Just received the sword and it's really impressive and very surprising in so many ways that I am going to wait a few days before getting into a more detailed post about it, but it has made me re-think a lot of my assumptions about swords in general and even more so how this sword type has unique and contradictory qualities: A great deal of " dissonance " in the ways one expects it to feel due to it's great size in profile and great thinness in distal taper. ( Dissonance in a good way ).
Short version: I like it and it's an impressive " tour de force " in producing such a wide and thin blade that still has a lot of presence and not too " floppy/bendy ". ( Scary SCARY sword. ).
I can compare this sword to " Ice cream ": It's like not having tasted anything like it before i.e. first time eating chocolate ice cream ...... you only thought you knew ice cream ( swords ) from all the other flavours, but this one is a completely different taste. ( Giant sharpened feather like scalpel with good presence ). |
ok, awsome, now.. if i may request, try cutting something with it... please??? 
i am thoroughly jealous of such an awsome sword, but alas, my bank balance wont permit such a commission.. so, for now ill just have to dream.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 09 Oct, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| William P wrote: |
ok, awsome, now.. if i may request, try cutting something with it... please???
i am thoroughly jealous of such an awsome sword, but alas, my bank balance wont permit such a commission.. so, for now ill just have to dream. |
O.K. did some very casual test cutting and sacrificed the cardboard shipping box. ( No didn't cut into the nicely made wooden shipping and storage crate that Michael seems to make standard for all his swords and other weapons ).
Obviously not very challenging target but at least a taste of how it behaves.
A) First a tip cut I flubbed: it's really important to orient the edges correctly with a very flexible blade, but this was my first attempt at cutting anything with it.
B) Did a series of vertical tip cuts using just wrist action and it made nice long cuts easily. ( Got the edge alignment right ),
C) An elbow and wrist involved cut made a cut about 2 feet long, and because I was doing this in my kitchen and didn't want to lose the kitchen counter all my cuts where short and snappy minimal force cuts.
D) Finished off the rectangular box with diagonal cuts: Again just wrist cuts that went through 90% of the width of the box.I avoided using any more force or speed to not lose control of the sword or go through the box completely deliberately.
E) One last cut slightly more vigourous cut the box in half very cleanly with no effort at all.
F) No room ( Safety ) or need for any really heavy or fast shoulder powered cutting with this soft target.
Now, before I went to the kitchen to do this I tried it leaning the box in the hallway leaning against a door and OOOOOPS while bringing the sword back for what would have been the first cut I hit the " STEEL " chinning bar in the doorway just above me with the false edge........   . Now after my heart stopped racing after the nice and loud metal on metal crash ringning I had a look at the edge to see if I would see some sort of damage .......... 
Well, I'm happy to report that I couldn't even find a flat spot on the very very thin edge ! In other words, even if the edges and the blade is very thin in the foible the heat treat is very very good and the sword showed no damage or even dulling of the edge.
Now this wasn't a full power hit but it was still hitting steel fairly firmly and not something I wanted to do.
Well, this does increase my confidence in the quality of the sword and is reinforcing my confidence that even very thin blades can be robust as opposed to the heavy Sharpened Crowbar Age of overbuilt swords of a few decades ago when some knife makers started to try to make swords but had no clue about period sword handling and period sword distal tapers. ( SCA, just a joke or pun I just couldn't resist and not meant to offend. ).
Oh, and paper cutting is also easy.
EDITED/ADDITIONAL: Looked really really closely at the blade with a strong light and I found where the sword hit the steel bar. Only thing visible was a smudge of paint, I assume from the chinning bar, and the good news is that knowing exactly where to look I still could not see any sign of impact or even slight dulling of the edge after I wiped the blade clean ! From this I conclude that it would take a much heavier blow on something much harder to do some visible damage the edges.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | I can compare this sword to " Ice cream ": It's like not having tasted anything like it before i.e. first time eating chocolate ice cream ...... you only thought you knew ice cream ( swords ) from all the other flavours, but this one is a completely different taste. ( Giant sharpened feather like scalpel with good presence ). |
I'm happy to hear your impressions Jean, and the comment above is just fantastic. I think that those moments of picking up a known object, but being flabbergasted and starting to reexamine how you look at swords is part of what really makes this craft unique and special. Every piece I make is different from the last, and each one teaches me something new as well.
So how is the chin up bar doing?
I mentioned this in a e-mail, but worth mentioning that the edge retention/geometry on a sword is really is defined by the last 2mm or so of the edge, but the sword is really functioning as a dynamic system and every aspect of the blade has to be just right to allow that last 2mm to be shaped in a way that produces a good cutting edge. This design was very unique in that I was trying to get a nice lenticular cross section, and the edges almost formed themselves due to the relation of the width and thickness of blade. Most importantly, if honed properly, and if the cut is aligned properly, then the edge will cut like a dream. If the cut is misaligned, and the edge impacts either armor or bone, it would be more likely to get damaged.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 13 Oct, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Pikula wrote: |
So how is the chin up bar doing?
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The chinning bar didn't take any noticeble damage either !? I guess this means that it is also fairly hard steel and the fact that the blade showed no trace of the impact hitting fiarly hard steel is even more impressive than if it had hit really soft steel and made a dent in it, I think ! ( Puzzled and impressed. ).
As I wrote to Michael in an e-mail in my first reactions to this sword:
| Quote: | Question: Compared to swords using thicker blades would this design get deeper notching in hard edge to edge
parries ? I'm guessing that what is critical isn't a comparison of blade thickness versus edge damage if comparing
the center of blades of very different thickness, but what is the important variable about depth of notching is the thickness
of blade just behind the final bevel forming the actual sharp edge. In other words the thickness of the blade just behind
the edge, or the thickness it would have unsharpened ? A 1 mm versus a 2 mm blade thickness just before the edge:
The mid blade thickness, no matter how thick, doesn't change the depth of notching at the edge. It does influence the total
mass and stiffness of a blade.
I think there is a tendency to perceive wrongly that a thick blade at mid ridge will have edges more resistant to damage
than a thinner blade even if the thickness backing up the edge is actually the same ? ( The whole sword looking more robust fools the mind into thinking that the edges would be stronger, but what is important is the localized dimensions at the edges ).
Anyway, I wonder what you think of this theory/observation ?
Quality of steel, carbon content and heat treat having to be equal for the above to be true if one only takes edge thickness
into account: Superior material qualities can make a thinner blade more resistant to damage than thicker but inferior quality
( Softer or more brittle ) blade edges. )
Oh, the handling is really pleasantly surprising as this huge blade feels like a sharpened and ultra fast feather in the hand.
Really love the scabbard and the lines and proportions of the sword, a quick test of the edges shows it to be able to cut paper as if it wasn't even there. |
Basically, this was what Michael was addressing in his post above this one.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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William P
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| Posted: Fri 14 Oct, 2011 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Michael Pikula wrote: |
So how is the chin up bar doing?
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The chinning bar didn't take any noticeble damage either !? I guess this means that it is also fairly hard steel and the fact that the blade showed no trace of the impact hitting fiarly hard steel is even more impressive than if it had hit really soft steel and made a dent in it, I think ! ( Puzzled and impressed. ).
As I wrote to Michael in an e-mail in my first reactions to this sword:
| Quote: | Question: Compared to swords using thicker blades would this design get deeper notching in hard edge to edge
parries ? I'm guessing that what is critical isn't a comparison of blade thickness versus edge damage if comparing
the center of blades of very different thickness, but what is the important variable about depth of notching is the thickness
of blade just behind the final bevel forming the actual sharp edge. In other words the thickness of the blade just behind
the edge, or the thickness it would have unsharpened ? A 1 mm versus a 2 mm blade thickness just before the edge:
The mid blade thickness, no matter how thick, doesn't change the depth of notching at the edge. It does influence the total
mass and stiffness of a blade.
I think there is a tendency to perceive wrongly that a thick blade at mid ridge will have edges more resistant to damage
than a thinner blade even if the thickness backing up the edge is actually the same ? ( The whole sword looking more robust fools the mind into thinking that the edges would be stronger, but what is important is the localized dimensions at the edges ).
Anyway, I wonder what you think of this theory/observation ?
Quality of steel, carbon content and heat treat having to be equal for the above to be true if one only takes edge thickness
into account: Superior material qualities can make a thinner blade more resistant to damage than thicker but inferior quality
( Softer or more brittle ) blade edges. )
Oh, the handling is really pleasantly surprising as this huge blade feels like a sharpened and ultra fast feather in the hand.
Really love the scabbard and the lines and proportions of the sword, a quick test of the edges shows it to be able to cut paper as if it wasn't even there. |
Basically, this was what Michael was addressing in his post above this one. |
excellent that it cuts well, though ill be honest i never really doubted that it would work.
if ive been reading the various reviews of these swords correctly, i have no doubt you could travel back in time to the crusades or the period that sword is from, hand it to a knight then go away, i have a feeling (after he got over having someone appear and dissapear in front of him) that he would have no problems with these swords and would happily go about the daily business of fighting with it.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 17 Oct, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| William P wrote: |
excellent that it cuts well, though ill be honest i never really doubted that it would work.
if ive been reading the various reviews of these swords correctly, i have no doubt you could travel back in time to the crusades or the period that sword is from, hand it to a knight then go away, i have a feeling (after he got over having someone appear and dissapear in front of him) that he would have no problems with these swords and would happily go about the daily business of fighting with it. |
Not only cuts well, but handles great: Very fluid, easy to stop and recover from and more than enough presence at the same time: It seems fast to get moving and easy to stop when one want to but at the same time feels powerful i.e. more opposite qualities that one wouldn't expect from the very same sword.
Oh, if a Knight in period got this sword he might find it very familiar in handling but would be surprised by the uniform quality of the steel ( Modern steel and modern heat treat being superior, at least in uniformity, compared to the very variable carbon content and hardness observed in even high quality period blades ).
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_bladehardness.html
Quoted from above:
| Quote: |
The most definitive characteristic that we can see from the hardness testing that has been done on original swords is the fact that the hardness varies dramatically throughout a piece, not just surface to core or edge to mid blade, but literally in the span of the material the hardness will fluctuate through quite a range. As an example, an 11th to 13th century sword in the Hofjagd und Rustkammer shows a range of hardness from 119 to 520 VPH.4 The average of the piece is 217VPH. The sword was additionally tested with four samples removed from the blade. These pieces were tested across the thickness of the blade and the microhardnesses ranged from 258VPH to 329VPH, with an average of 300 VPH. When we would describe this sword using the Rockwell system, we are looking at a piece that ranges from less than 20Rc to 50Rc, with the average still below 20Rc. |
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 29 Nov, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I asked Michael some questions about the R.C. hardness of his swords or at least what hardness he is aiming for and here is his answer about how he tests his blades when they are close to being finished to be sure that the edges are not too soft or too hard to see if the edges will roll under pressure or chip:
From Michael:
| Quote: | I actually haven't had blade tested on a rockwell tester, but with the regiment that I use I should be getting about 58Rockwell more or less. I have been wanting to get a tester and test each blade, but I don't know if I can justify the expense at this time. I do test every blade with a file prior to tempering to make sure it skates, then after tempering I start forming my edge and tap the blade into a piece of steel, starting gentle, then slowly work up some more pressure and checking after each hit to make sure there isn't any chipping or rolling. Once I'm happy with the test I continue on to finishing the blade.
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Considering the extreme thinness of the blade in the foible this does inspire great confidence that the edges are much more durable than one might imagine or fear.
Also explains why my little accident of hitting the steel chinning bar in the doorway of my bedroom when bringing back the sword to cut down into the cardboard shipping box the sword came in didn't cause any damage to the edge: So I accidentally did my own " proofing " of the blade which confirms the testing that Michael does to every piece before it leaves his shop. ( No visible marks on the edge, not even a dull spot where it hit the bar! )
From doing a little light sharpening with a diamond hone I could tell by feel that the blade was certainly fairly hard.
By the way just took about 10 sheets of note paper, and in an informal cutting test, I cut all 10 sheets loosely held together in my hand with the sword and the paper was cut with hardly any effort with just a light draw cut.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Tue 29 Nov, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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It's good to see a man getting so much enjoyment from his sword!
By the way, did anyone else point out this other sister sword at the recent Cluny exhibit - a very similar XIIIb except with a most unusual pommel. Almost 'R' like the Tritonia, but with a slight disk-like buldge around the perimiter. If the 'lost Oakeshott' and Tritonia sword had a love-child, this would be it:
http://www.vikverir.no/ressurser/usages_mythe...amp;page=7 (thumbnail rows 2-5, click 4th thumbnail down on left column to get full length shot).
Anyone know more about this sword?
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 29 Nov, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| J.D. Crawford wrote: | It's good to see a man getting so much enjoyment from his sword!
By the way, did anyone else point out this other sister sword at the recent Cluny exhibit - a very similar XIIIb except with a most unusual pommel. Almost 'R' like the Tritonia, but with a slight disk-like buldge around the perimiter. If the 'lost Oakeshott' and Tritonia sword had a love-child, this would be it:
http://www.vikverir.no/ressurser/usages_mythe...amp;page=7 (thumbnail rows 2-5, click 4th thumbnail down on left column to get full length shot).
Anyone know more about this sword? |
Wow, that's a great find and I agree about it looking like the love-child of the Tritonia and the Lost Oakeshott XIIIb.
Also, it's really useful when there are so many angles and close-ups shown of a sword that a maker has a chance of making a very similar one should they want to or someone order a custom version.
Measurements and statistics done by the maker would certainly be essential if one wanted the degree of accuracy of an Albion Museum line reproduction, but lacking precise specifications one could still get something aesthetically and period plausible sword of this type.
That is a rather unique and interesting pommel.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I was thinking as well Jean. I've always liked XIIIb and was inspired by your sword from M.P. and other similar types discussed recently around here. Indeed I was watching out for one a bit different for a commission. This one at the Cluny display fits the bill perfectly.
But in the mean time I picked up a Tritonia (which is pretty similar) and have a couple more projects underway, so it is not likely to happen any time soon.
So, I posted these pics with the thought that maybe Michael would like to do this sword if he's still on an XIII kick, or maybe someone else would like to comission it. In either case I enjoy seeing these swords replicated and claim no ownership on the idea.
Regards, JD
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 30 Nov, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| J.D. Crawford wrote: |
So, I posted these pics with the thought that maybe Michael would like to do this sword if he's still on an XIII kick, or maybe someone else would like to comission it. In either case I enjoy seeing these swords replicated and claim no ownership on the idea.
Regards, JD |
The hint hint part was also sort of aimed at Michael as a design variant he might consider doing, although if someone commissioned one I'm sure he would be even happier to have a guarantied sale.
I wasn't assuming that you would be ordering one yourself as funds and prior commitments plus having a very similar sword can be factors in the decisions of what, when and how much one can pay before making the decision to buy or order a sword.
I also think that if Michael is still on a XIII kick that this is a worthy variant of the type.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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