| Author |
Message |
|
Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
|
 Posted: Sat 20 Aug, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Hi Peter,
Yes, I will be bringing the XIIIb with me to Ashokan. Jean talked me into doing a simple storage scabbard so I'd have to hold on to in for a little while anyway so it is win win all around. I'm really looking forward to talking about these blades and seeing your reconstruction. These are fun blades to grind aren't they? 
|
|
   |
 |
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Sat 20 Aug, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rusty Thomas wrote: | Mr. Johnsson
It looks like Mr. Pikula will be bringing along "Jean's Sword" to the Ashokan. I know I personally appreciate his generosity as I am sure he is very anxious to get this sword in hand. Also thank you Mr. Johnsson for letting us know exactly what the Ashokan is about and for bringing along "your?" reconstruction. This is surely a very exciting time for all those interested in these swords. So thanks to you Mr. Johnsson and to Mr. Pikula and also to Jean. I am looking forward to hearing what comes from the Ashokan. |
Well it only delays delivery to me by about a month, very little time considering what a custom sword usually involves in waiting time.   Well this is the advantage of buying work that is already made and available for immediate delivery, but I am really happy to give Michael a chance to show this sword to other top makers and I hope that Peter will report back on it in this Topic thread and maybe make a Topic thread about the whole seminar if possible, as we would all learn some fascinating things I'm sure.
Now, if I had to wait many months I might have been more selfish and wanted it sent immediately. 
It is also good timing because the wait isn't completely " unselfish " as it also coincides with the time it will take for Michael to make me a simple storage wood core/leather covered scabbard ..... so everybody wins here. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Sun 21 Aug, 2011 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Sat 20 Aug, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Michael Pikula wrote: | Hi Peter,
Yes, I will be bringing the XIIIb with me to Ashokan. Jean talked me into doing a simple storage scabbard so I'd have to hold on to in for a little while anyway so it is win win all around. I'm really looking forward to talking about these blades and seeing your reconstruction. These are fun blades to grind aren't they? |
I hadn't actually read Michael's post before writing mine but it seems like we are on exactly the same wave length in our comments about the scabbard making and it being a win win for everybody. ( Almost used the same words.  )
I must say that this seems to be a pattern with Michael and his mindset about design and everything else seems to match my own mindset to a great degree and another reason why my custom commissions with him have been some of the best ordering and design experiences I have had. ( I guess I should stop as I'm probably making Michael blush, but I mean every word of it ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scott Kowalski
|
| Posted: Sat 20 Aug, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Congratulations on getting what looks to be a great sword Jean. I know from first hand experience that Michael knows how to make XIIIb swords. This one is even wider at the base then mine though which is scary. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the sword when you receive it Jean.
I am also looking forward to your reconstruction of the River Fyris find. It looks like it will be a fearsome cutter!
Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
|
|
|
|
|
J.D. Crawford
|
| Posted: Sun 21 Aug, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott Kowalski wrote: | | Congratulations on getting what looks to be a great sword Jean. I know from first hand experience that Michael knows how to make XIIIb swords. This one is even wider at the base then mine though which is scary. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the sword when you receive it Jean. |
I don't think I have commented on these two projects, but I enjoyed reading about both of them. I especially like to see people going 'off the beaten path' with medieval sword reproductions. I'm glad this latest sword went to such a great guy who can really appreciate it. Mr. Pikula seems to have made himself something of the go-to-guy for big XIIIb blades (although I guess Peter Johnson can lay claim to that too). Although I don't own a Pikula, I must say I've really grown to admire his (your) work since seeing what he (you) did with Tim's viking type Y a couple of years ago. He (you) seem to be one of the few people out there that really understand the geometry of the medieval sword. So, in short, congratulations to both the smith and the lucky owners of these swords.
No disrepsect to the original sword (whose historical importance cannot matched), but there's nothing like holding an accurate, sharp, gleaming sword as it would have been on its first day of battle 750 years ago. I really gotta get me an XIIIb some day...but now need to come up with something else a bit different, hmmm.
| Scott Kowalski wrote: | | I am also looking forward to your reconstruction of the River Fyris find. It looks like it will be a fearsome cutter! |
That sounds cool too! At first I thought this was the Tritonia sword, but now I realize the difference. Looks like a common family though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scott Kowalski
|
| Posted: Sun 21 Aug, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
You would not go wring having Michael make you a XIIIb J.D. In fact you would not go wrong having him make you most anything. Of the custom weapon projects I have had made the two with Michael have been the most pleasant. It helps that I have been able to meet with him a couple of times during the production of as well as when the projects were finished and picked them up directly from him. I just wish I had the money to have Michael make me something right now. 
I thought the same about the sword Peter was making but realized that the pommel was not an R. Never the less is will be an interesting project and I also agree that it would appear to come from the same common family.
Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
|
|
|
|
|
J.D. Crawford
|
| Posted: Sun 21 Aug, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott Kowalski wrote: | | I thought the same about the sword Peter was making but realized that the pommel was not an R. Never the less is will be an interesting project and I also agree that it would appear to come from the same common family. |
Right, now I see it. It looks like an 'R' at first glance, but there's an unusual assymetric concavity, if I'm seeing the picture right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Watson
|
| Posted: Mon 22 Aug, 2011 12:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Michael, I have always liked wide blades particularly the type XVIIIc and some type XIV's, and this sweet beastie you have created has only further increased my interest in wide bladed swords. I am particularly intrigued by your comments about blade width positively contributing to it's rigidity. I thought this was only significantly achieved by blade thickness when considered in cross section.
The relative scarcity of wide bladed cruciform swords has always raised questions for me about their relative merit from an applied historical martial perspective. Perhaps they were only rare due to construction difficulties and their ratity has nothing to do with their effectiveness or otherwise on the battlefield. Other comments by Peter Johnsson on the XVIIIc seem to reflect a blade cross section profile that would allow little tolerance for error during the constuction of the blade due a a thin section (on one example I think it was 4mm at most at the spine) and the very extreme width of the blade. By all accounts well informed people seem to agree that amongst other positive attributes the very wide blades would be supreme cutters, which may seem obvious, but they seem to acheive this ability based on more than simply the width of the blade creating an effective very acute cutting plane.
Peter is there any chance you can start a thread with photo's and comments for your River Fyris sword recreation?
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Paul Watson wrote: | I thought this was only significantly achieved by blade thickness when considered in cross section.
|
Just a thought experiment here:
Imagine two blades fundamentally identical in profile and distal taper and of the same length but with one blade twice as wide:
Blade (A) 1.5" wide at the guard tapering to 1" near the point.
Blade (B) 3" wide at the guard tapering to 2" near the point.
Now apply pressure to blade (A) and bend it 45 degrees and take note of the force needed to bend the blade.
Do the same 45 degree bending of blade (B).
Wouldn't you expect that it would take approximately twice the force to bend (B) compared to (A) ? ( it would be the same as bending two (A+A) at the same time. ).
Now if you wanted to make a blade stiffer you could do it more efficiently by adding a thick midrib to blade (A) and get a stiffness equal to blade (B) with only a few millimetre greater maximum thickness due to the midrib.
Now as to cutting power: Blade (B) in this case would have roughly twice the mass of blade (A) but with an identical thickness: So if all other thing being equal including sharpness the wider blade should be a better cutter.
One could also have the wider blade thinner than the narrower blade and end up with similar stiffness of the two swords and close to the same weight which would again favour the wider blade as a better cutting blade.
One can obviously play with all the variables to fine tune blade thickness, versus blade width, versus mass of blade, versus blade stiffness, to optimize what one is trying to achieve with the sword.
Anyway, my best guess on a purely theoretical basis.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Mon 22 Aug, 2011 11:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, another issue/advantage with a very wide blade is in making one's blade more risky or difficult to grab by the opponent.
We know from the much narrower longsword that grabbing even a very sharp blade can be done safely if one can keep the blade from sliding in one's grip, and this seems to have been an often used technique.
A technique usually best performed against a parried blade that is not in motion, even if this lack of motion is of very short duration in the dead time after a successful parry. ( Timing critical ).
But I was wondering if with a blade of considerable width it would be much more difficult to capture a blade safely as one would have difficulty getting the hand around the blade ! And even if one did get the hand around the blade it would be with a very open and weak grip making hard to control the edges or keep the opponent from sliding or twisting the blade out of one's grasp.
Probably would get seriously cut or lose fingers in the attempt   .
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
|
|
 |
|
|
William P
|
| Posted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
what strikes me about this sword is not that its both quite long, and very wide.. bbut that such a blade type comes with such a comparatively tiny handle.
personally id be more comfortable giving this type of sword a handle three times as long because thats what such a big blade looks like it should have.
if you were to make a replica with skull shaped pommel, runes and a guard shaped like a pair of dragons wings it wouldnt look in the least out of place in a conan the barbarian movie.
that blade shape looks deceptively big, and to have it as well balanced as my practical norman sword is quite a feat. (or maybe it just means mine has horrible balance, but either way,. it is a beautiful sword and quite frightening to behold.
|
|
|
|
|
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
|
| Posted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| William P wrote: | what strikes me about this sword is not that its both quite long, and very wide.. bbut that such a blade type comes with such a comparatively tiny handle.
personally id be more comfortable giving this type of sword a handle three times as long because thats what such a big blade looks like it should have. |
It's a single-handed sword with a 32.2" long blade.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
|
|
|
|
|
|
William P
|
| Posted: Sun 28 Aug, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | William P wrote: | what strikes me about this sword is not that its both quite long, and very wide.. bbut that such a blade type comes with such a comparatively tiny handle.
personally id be more comfortable giving this type of sword a handle three times as long because thats what such a big blade looks like it should have. |
It's a single-handed sword with a 32.2" long blade. |
i understand that it is meant to be single handed it just LOOKS from the view of the flat,like it should be alot heavier than it actually is
|
|
|
|
|
|
Benjamin Floyd II
|
| Posted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
But I was wondering if with a blade of considerable width it would be much more difficult to capture a blade safely as one would have difficulty getting the hand around the blade ! And even if one did get the hand around the blade it would be with a very open and weak grip making hard to control the edges or keep the opponent from sliding or twisting the blade out of one's grasp. |
You don't have to close your fingers around both edges. I am work or I'd find the youtube video by Hammaborg where he does a live demo with bare hands. He does a disarm and a tug of war with a sharp arming sword.
You don't have to wrap the fingers around both edges. You just have to use your palm on the flat of one side and your fingers on the flat of the other.
The wider the flat is, the more fiction you can make with your palm. It might even make it easier!
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Mon 29 Aug, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Benjamin Floyd II wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
But I was wondering if with a blade of considerable width it would be much more difficult to capture a blade safely as one would have difficulty getting the hand around the blade ! And even if one did get the hand around the blade it would be with a very open and weak grip making hard to control the edges or keep the opponent from sliding or twisting the blade out of one's grasp. |
You don't have to close your fingers around both edges. I am work or I'd find the youtube video by Hammaborg where he does a live demo with bare hands. He does a disarm and a tug of war with a sharp arming sword.
You don't have to wrap the fingers around both edges. You just have to use your palm on the flat of one side and your fingers on the flat of the other.
The wider the flat is, the more fiction you can make with your palm. It might even make it easier! |
You may be correct but I'm still not 100% convinced that wider is easier to get a " secure " grip on the blade ?
I can also make a case for a very narrow blade can be difficult to control as twisting it out of the grip or even have the blade rotate inside the grip might be hard to control.
Oh, I have seen those videos before and I do believe that blade grabs can be very effective and a lot safer than one would assume.
I think timing, and the way the grab it done it very critical: You have to catch the blade preferably when it is stopped after a spent movement or when in a bind or after a parry before it gets moving again.
For a wide blade in movement I think you would want to grab it from behind it motion and not intercept it on the leading edge ?
If and when one has gotten as grip on the blade, it is safe as long as the blade doesn't slide or allowed to slide in the hand, but if one misses one's timing, lost fingers are possible and even probable.
As to blade width versus blade grabs there may be an optimum range of widths that work best with very narrow or wide blades each having " issues " or technically better ways to deal with both extremes of widths ?
All that said, my speculations are just speculations and I could be completely wrong here.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | I'm still not 100% convinced that wider is easier to get a " secure " grip on the blade ?] |
Interesting thoughts on the grabbing of this blade but I would not be voting for it. I realize that there are ways of going about this, or situations that may make this safe, but if this blade is on the move, my hands are staying well away from the edge (as well as all other portions of my body.) The first thing I learned while grinding blades is if a blade is about to fall, or slide off a rest onto the ground, let it fall. The edges are sharp, your body is soft, and it is easier to fix a blade then to fix severed tendons and flesh. Plus grips are designed from holding, blades are meant for cutting
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Thu 08 Sep, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh and my waiting time before you can ship is getting lot closer.
I've been sort of putting it out of mind for the last 2 or 3 weeks which sort of helps being patient, but after all the discussion about this sword and your even bigger Type XIII two hander I am looking forward to having it in hand to get a feel for it.
I'm imagining how it feels like, which I assume may be similar to the Albion Tritonia but somewhat livelier because of it being lighter in weight in spite of it profile making it look huge .... so there may be some contradictory sensory dissonance between it's perceive mass visually and it's physical handling.
Looking forward to the impressions it has on the Seminar participants and their conclusions about it.
You could even ask Michael Edelson about his thoughts about how blade grabbing techniques might be affected by extreme blade width ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Fri 23 Sep, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well it's on it's way and Michael sent me pics of it in the scabbard he made for it.
As seems to be normal for him he exceeded expectations by making it with a wood core instead of just a leather safety/storage scabbard I was expecting.
The scabbard is very minimalist in decoration or metal bits but I'm very happy about it having a wood core even though just leather would have served the purpose there is a bit of extra safety and protection to and from the blade with a wood core.
What is surprising is that I really think that the simplicity of it really looks good with the " brutal " look of such a wide blade and very much in the spirit of a plain but beautifully executed campaign scabbard, also love the colour and the almost lightly weathered look of it: The whole sword and scabbard has a certain " no nonsense " tool of destruction look of a using in period sword.
 Attachment: 94.17 KB
Attachment: 87.19 KB
Attachment: 94.34 KB
Attachment: 83.17 KB
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 26 Sep, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have to admit that it was hard to let this one go, and even harder to break apart the grip and redo it! I noticed that there was some crackling coming from the grip when there was any flex along the flat, which means I either had a empty pocket of space and the surrounding epoxy cracked, or I didn't get a clean surface on either the tang or the wood and the epoxy cured but didn't have a bonding effect. Anyway I cut off the leather and redid the wood core, and tried to keep the same look and proportions as the original since... Well it worked really well and I'm happy with the way it turned out. Here are a few extra shots of the new grip, as it travels to it's new home
Attachment: 95.29 KB
Attachment: 78.32 KB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic