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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Films tend to be more entertaining if you have not a clue about history. Seriously, knowledge just spoils them. Try some lobotomy next time and I promise you lots of fun.
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kurt Scholz wrote:
Films tend to be more entertaining if you have not a clue about history. Seriously, knowledge just spoils them. Try some lobotomy next time and I promise you lots of fun.


A friend of mine once coined the term "park your brain at the door" for movies that just don't make sense, but are fun to watch if you don't take them seriously. A lot of the Robin Hood movies fall into that category, as does most every Hollywood history epic made.

Historical study includes a lot of issues and topics that no film can capture or explain well in two hours. I'm just happy they're making sword epics again instead of cop buddy movies. :-)
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Joshua Anthony




Location: The Redneck Riviera
Joined: 17 Sep 2010

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can go into a movie and suspend disbelief as long as the filmmaker goes to reasonable lengths to at least give the appearance of historical accuracy. I don't expect a documentary walking into a movie, I expect to be entertained. In the case of Kingdom of Heaven I've done a lot a reading about the crusades because it's a period that interests me, and from what I know Ridley Scott did one hell of a job getting the battle at the Horns of Hattin right. Others may disagree about the film's value as entertainment, but tradeoffs are always going to happen in a movie in regards to "historical accuracy" or "realism" because there's only so much you can cram into two or three hours of a movie and still tell a coherent story.
"...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
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Job Overbeek





Joined: 21 Apr 2011

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tristán Zukowski wrote:
Has anyone else seen the HTV series "Robin of Sherwood" with Michael Praed that was out in the 80's? I have a soft spot for that show, just because I watched the episodes over and over and over again when I was young Big Grin

I recall those, I have almost all of hem on my pc.
They are by FAR the best realistic portrayel of Robin Hood, very nice indeed.
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Jeff A. Arbogast





Joined: 16 Oct 2008

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Tue 03 May, 2011 3:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joshua Anthony wrote:
I can go into a movie and suspend disbelief as long as the filmmaker goes to reasonable lengths to at least give the appearance of historical accuracy. I don't expect a documentary walking into a movie, I expect to be entertained. In the case of Kingdom of Heaven I've done a lot a reading about the crusades because it's a period that interests me, and from what I know Ridley Scott did one hell of a job getting the battle at the Horns of Hattin right. Others may disagree about the film's value as entertainment, but tradeoffs are always going to happen in a movie in regards to "historical accuracy" or "realism" because there's only so much you can cram into two or three hours of a movie and still tell a coherent story.



I won't argue with this. But Kingdom of Heaven, like Robin Hood, just annoyed me after a while.
Examples-
Orlando Bloom as the blacksmith (AGAIN? Like in PIRATES?) as well as Balian of Ibilen. He makes a great elf, but was unconvincing in this role. To me anyway.

Getting cut through his mail pretty badly but being right as rain next day (Whaaa? Not even my daughter heals that fast).

Everyone praising Balian all the time everywhere he went, for nothing at all. I thought he was Harry Potter for a minute.

He gets laid way too easily.

But I'll admit that the actor who played Saladin WAS very good. I liked the scene at the end when he picks up the fallen crucifix and carefully places it on the table. Nice touch. The Leper king was good too. But I thought the Templar Master was terrible and acted like a fool.

I agree with what a previous poster said about Ridley Scott's movies-not a bad story, just bad story-telling.

A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed 04 May, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Templar Master during this specific time is exactly considered a fool, so playing the fool was not a bad thing, but men running around in mail all day was really awful for a country that combined so many influences on fashion and so many French.
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Michael Ekelmann




Location: Seattle Metro Area, USA
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat 07 May, 2011 4:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ridley Scott's Robin Hood is terrible. I'm willing to forgive a lot of anachronisms and errors if a movie has good production design and a good, well acted storyline. This latest Robin Hood had production design that was ok at best and the storyline and acting were very mediocre. Afterwards, my wife and I said "Should watched Kevin Costner"

Kingdom of Heaven, OTOH, while completley anachronistic in terms of armour, politics and character motivation is a visually stunning movie with decent acting all around and some real stand outs, like Eva Green, Edward Norton and Liam Neeson. The knightly vow, in particular, is a powerful scene. I like the longer "director's cut" better as it explains some of the holes in the theatrical release.

“Men prefer to fight with swords, so they can see each other's eyes!" Sean Connery as Mulay Hamid El Raisuli in The Wind and the Lion
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Marcos Cantu





Joined: 28 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat 07 May, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

for those that didnt like Kingdom of Heaven, i suggest watching the Directors Cut. the extra 45 min makes a world of difference in the story...
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B. Fulton





Joined: 28 Dec 2004

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 08 May, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Agreed, it was quite literally a different movie. As much as i disliked some of the inaccuracies, overall, it was one of best medieval type movies made in the last 10 years IF you're watching the Director Cut.


I finally saw Russell Crowe's Robin Hood. Wasn't bad. Wasn't great, but better than Kevin Costner.
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Mon 09 May, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The biggest drawback I had from when I start studing Historic Arms and Armour is that I couldn't enjoy a movie ever since. Recently Rete 4 transmitted "Prince Valiant (1954)"...

The only ones I can see are like 300: there isn't anything of historical value and they don't even think of present themself as an historical movie (what the journalists say is another thing). Often they are inaccurate as reconstruction, but they manage to capture the spirit of the fact: I'm very convinced that an ancient greek would have liked 300 more than an accurate movie of the battle.

To return OT, but the egression I made explain my choice, the best Robin Hood for me is Mel Brooks "Men in thights", with the king John (I haven't see the english version, but in italian has a very appropriated roman accent: not all the kings where gentle and noble), Latrine (the witch which is only a misunderstood chef with some knowledge) and so on.

"Unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent!"
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Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

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PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually I can't even watch 300 after reading Persian Fire by Tom Holland. Great book by the way. And it makes 300 horribly unwatchable.

As for the Ridley Scott version, why did they re-write well documented political events like that? I mean, messing with the Magna Carta of all things, for crying out loud!

Yes, kingdom of Heaven is one of the best fairly recent medieval movies. Not completely historical with some events being backwards but the directors cut was pretty good, even with the skewered timeline and too late period barrel helmets and other minor things. Like Orlando being typecast as blacksmith. At least he's in control of his rioting eyebrows in this one, his acting is actually good, probably his career best.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 2:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johan Gemvik wrote:
As for the Ridley Scott version, why did they re-write well documented political events like that? I mean, messing with the Magna Carta of all things, for crying out loud!


Yes! The English should totally get revenge! Maybe they can make some movie about a really important American document, like the Declaration of Independance. Maybe they could do something crazy like connect it to the Masons and Templars. If they're daring they could even say it has a treasure map on the back!

Oh... wait.... Razz Laughing Out Loud

[/sarcasm]

The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 779

PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Johan Gemvik wrote:
As for the Ridley Scott version, why did they re-write well documented political events like that? I mean, messing with the Magna Carta of all things, for crying out loud!


Yes! The English should totally get revenge! Maybe they can make some movie about a really important American document, like the Declaration of Independance. Maybe they could do something crazy like connect it to the Masons and Templars. If they're daring they could even say it has a treasure map on the back!

Oh... wait.... Razz Laughing Out Loud

[/sarcasm]


Laughing Out Loud

Post of the week nominee!

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

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