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Michael Edelson
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 Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Your experience is a very interesting one, Scott. I find myself wondering if I should send some of my students to work your old job to improve their cutting. Heck, I'd like to do it myself.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Safety advice for cut testing |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: | | Don't let someone cut over their leading leg. |
Can you explain what you mean by this? I can't figure it out from context or the other replies.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Sat 19 Feb, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Safety advice for cut testing |
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| Sander Marechal wrote: | | Michael Edelson wrote: | | Don't let someone cut over their leading leg. |
Can you explain what you mean by this? I can't figure it out from context or the other replies. |
Stand in left Vom Tag, cut from the right, but don't step, leave your left leg leading. You'll find that it is, potentially, in the way of your sword. You are cutting into or accross your leading leg.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Sat 19 Feb, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well one good thing I find for large cutting parties with a lot of new people is to rope off a cutting area and a rule that only one person at a time in that area. If they have never held a sword, having a blunt around that they can get the basics of how to swing a sword help quite a bit. Have two people...one to watch the cutting area and one to teach the blunts if this is the case. Use milk bottles to start. Even kids can cut milk bottles with ease.
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Mark T
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| Posted: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Where onlookers stand is also important ... never ceases to amaze me at how people want to stand directly opposite the cutter, so they 'can see better'. 
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury
Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: |
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If the person(s) doing the test cutting is really clueless about sharp things and not used to using tools or even good at using a kitchen knife without losing body parts they would be poor candidates to try test cutting with no practice at all and no supervision by someone competent.
At least someone used to using sharp tools has some fear and respect for a sharp edge: There is a combination of skill plus maturity and some minimal common sense needed for test cutting to be reasonably safe.
At times I wonder if being personally used to very sharp things, and not hurting ourselves, we forget how clueless or clumsy some people can be.
Now if we add in alcohol or drugs, immaturity and impulsiveness or just being a stupid jerk as contraindications of who we should hand a sharp anything to i.e. don't give a sword to anyone you wouldn't thrust with a loaded gun. 
Large groups of people and a " party mood " should also be a RED FLAG !
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | At times I wonder if being personally used to very sharp things, and not hurting ourselves, we forget how clueless or clumsy some people can be. |
This bears repeating. Do you remember what your very first impulse was when holding a real live sword for the first time? Now be honest - was it to touch the edge to see how sharp it is? If so, that just means you were still a normal person back then. 
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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I have had "good luck" coaching teenagers and inexperienced adults to test cut using several of my sharps at home. What has worked for me so far is to do everything possible to make sure that they have decent form, and do not start by trying some sort of quick, massively brute force swing. Before I ever let them handle a sharp, I make sure that they can use a similar style of wooden waster with fair technique. In addition, the first "real target" I try to make the most trivial and easy to cut (piece of paper, small twig, etc.) as possible so that they start off using the real sharp sword in SLOW MOTION. If they can progress through these things LISTENING TO DIRECTIONS and executing correctly, then they move on to larger sticks, rolled up paper, water bottles, etc.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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P. Cha
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mikko Kuusirati wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | At times I wonder if being personally used to very sharp things, and not hurting ourselves, we forget how clueless or clumsy some people can be. |
This bears repeating. Do you remember what your very first impulse was when holding a real live sword for the first time? Now be honest - was it to touch the edge to see how sharp it is? If so, that just means you were still a normal person back then. |
You know, I NEVER had that silly notion. Sharp things cut...why would I want to cut my finger for no good reason?!? Then again I have always been a very anayltical person. In fact it took a lot of getting use to before I could get comfortable with half swording :P .
Oh and on topic more, if you do have a gathering of new people with the expressed purpoe of cutting thing up, get the notion that you yourself will be doing much cutting out of your head right now. You will be a host, teacher and supervisor. If your doing all your jobs correctly, you won't have a lot of time left. But it is rewarding and fun in it's own rights.
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Colt Reeves
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, now I feel like an idiot or something. How are you suppose to test an edge then?
I can and will touch a blade to check the sharpness, up to and including actual razor blades. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall an incident where I ever drew blood doing this. I'm keenly (heh) aware of the risks and what I'm doing when I do this. It's when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing that I get cut...
"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Colt Reeves wrote: | Ok, now I feel like an idiot or something. How are you suppose to test an edge then?
I can and will touch a blade to check the sharpness, up to and including actual razor blades. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall an incident where I ever drew blood doing this. I'm keenly (heh) aware of the risks and what I'm doing when I do this. It's when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing that I get cut... |
The number of times I've seen some variation on "Is this really sharp? OW!" (and then had to wipe a set of fingerprints off the blade before they rust in, to boot) is kinda depressing.
PS. Yeah, I sometimes touch the edge, too. But I know to move my thumb across the edge, not along it...
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
Last edited by Mikko Kuusirati on Sun 27 Feb, 2011 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikko Kuusirati wrote: | | Colt Reeves wrote: | Ok, now I feel like an idiot or something. How are you suppose to test an edge then?
I can and will touch a blade to check the sharpness, up to and including actual razor blades. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall an incident where I ever drew blood doing this. I'm keenly (heh) aware of the risks and what I'm doing when I do this. It's when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing that I get cut... |
The number of times I've seen some variation on "Is this really sharp? OW!" (and then had to wipe a set of fingerprints off the blade before they rust in, to boot) is kinda depressing. |
Well one can touch the edge very very carefully but one should avoid completely running one's finger along the edge: A razor sharp one will bite you deep before you can even feel it !
One alternate way is to touch one's thumbnail and see if the edge bites into it or not.
Oh, and this can also be dangerous if one uses too much pressure or one messes up and touches the thumb above the nail.
Cutting paper can give you an idea how sharp an edge is also. Shaving arm hairs works also but is hard to do with a sword length blade ...... Hummmmmmm : Still not a good idea for the clumsy or if scared of the edge one may move clumsily.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Colt Reeves
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| Posted: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well obviously I don't grab razors and run my wrist along the edge!  I usually just press down on it lightly to get a feel for it. I'm not in the habit of doing this every ten minutes either. Once I have an idea of how sharp a specific blade is, I leave it alone. It isn't going to go from razor-sharp to duller than my wit or vica versa by sitting in the corner after all.
"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling
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This is a standard topic