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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Lin Robinson wrote: | | The great kilt was probably cut down or abandoned altogether once the troops saw the advantages of trousers or leggings in the thick vegetation of N. America. |
And the the big mosquitoes and black flies would probably have made the kilt somewhat inviting for those: Welcome to the buffet under the kilt.   
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mike W Grant
Location: UK, Exiled Scot in England Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Some really interesting replies here, I think judging by the answers there is no good 'Culloden' period replicas out there that were Scottish made. I think the Derbyshire arms one is close but really reflects a post Culloden pistol. What I was really after was similar to the below:
I'm guessing there is little demand for them otherwise a manufacturer would be jumping on them to make repros!
I may try engraving the DA one (I've ordered it), to make it look a bit more pre Culloden period!
So would a dremmel with diamond engraving bit work on this pistol!?
Somone mentioned that they were all 'blued' and virtually non exist with the blueing today - is this correct, would they blue a pistol that was engraved as it would hide most of the engraving i.e. all blued!?
Mike
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I tried to have two pistols of that type made in India and sent ...well,,,too much for what was promisd to be a six week project. That was 15 months ago and, suprise, no pistols, no refund, no communications! Live and learn!
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Wed 16 Feb, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike W Grant wrote: | Some really interesting replies here, I think judging by the answers there is no good 'Culloden' period replicas out there that were Scottish made. I think the Derbyshire arms one is close but really reflects a post Culloden pistol. What I was really after was similar to the below:
I'm guessing there is little demand for them otherwise a manufacturer would be jumping on them to make repros!
I may try engraving the DA one (I've ordered it), to make it look a bit more pre Culloden period!
So would a dremmel with diamond engraving bit work on this pistol!?
Somone mentioned that they were all 'blued' and virtually non exist with the blueing today - is this correct, would they blue a pistol that was engraved as it would hide most of the engraving i.e. all blued!?
Mike |
Mike...
Lack of demand is one reason. Complexity of manufacture - if the maker wanted to be truly authentic - could be another. At any rate, the Derbyshire pistol, which is almost identical to the one I have - the handle for the pricker is shaped differenty - is the only inexpensive (relatively) pistol of this kind available. I am sure it was also made in India.
There have probably been more projects ruined with a Dremel tool than have ever been completed. Take it from someone who knows. I use mine for removing stock on knife handles, polishing and cutting off screws, but no delicate work. If you want to engrave it, the only way to do it properly is with gravers and a chasing hammer. Otherwise you risk ruining your pistol.
There is evidence of bluing remaining on these pistols. I suspect the engraving was picked out with silver or gold leaf on the more expensive pistols while the engraving on lesser guns was either filled with brass or left plain, more likely the latter. It will show up through the blued finish it just does not jump out at you.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Chris Goerner
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Lin Robinson wrote: | | Lack of demand is one reason. Complexity of manufacture - if the maker wanted to be truly authentic - could be another. At any rate, the Derbyshire pistol, which is almost identical to the one I have - the handle for the pricker is shaped differenty - is the only inexpensive (relatively) pistol of this kind available. I am sure it was also made in India. |
Lin,
What is the "Derbyshire pistol" you are referring to. Any photos available? Is this a gun still in production and available on the general market?
Chris
Sic Semper Tyranus
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2011 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Goerner wrote: |
Lin,
What is the "Derbyshire pistol" you are referring to. Any photos available? Is this a gun still in production and available on the general market?
Chris |
Chris...
It is in the first post of this thread. Derbyshire is the retailer. The pistol they show on their web site appears to be one of the Indian made Murdochs with the slight difference mentioned above.
Lin
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Chris Goerner
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Ah -- thanks for the clarification. I was hoping there was another option out there not already shown.
Sic Semper Tyranus
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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I m,ay have shared this before, so if I have, forgive me for being redundant. You can make some significant improvements on the Indian-made Murdochs with a little expense and some elbow grease. First thing I did on mine was to use a combination of files and 80-grit sandpaper to remove alot of steel on the butt frame and slightly recontour it to be more authentic. There isn't a whole lot you can do, but the steel is fairly thick and you can make some improvements. This also recontours the brass medallion insert giving it more rounded corders and a lower overall profile. I took a Dremel took and made a big reduction in the thickness of the ram's horns...probably 50% of the width. Then I took a torch and heated the ram's horn rede hot and curled them inwards in a tighter pattern. At the made time I reworked the touch-hole pin to make it round and much, much smaller. The barrel was reworked by filing off the band at the muzzel end and softening the "Buck Rogers ray-gun" look. I ordered a cock set and trigger from TRS and installed them. When finished, I probably had less than $20 in parts and a much nicer looking pistol. Not any more authentic - it's still way too big - but still IMHO better looking. The last step was blueing which I did with a simple, cold blueing agent which I finished with 0000 steel wool. Now it looks a bit older and not shiney. This is a nice project for anyone who wants to put in the time.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Clark Volmar
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| GG Osborne wrote: | | I m,ay have shared this before, so if I have, forgive me for being redundant. You can make some significant improvements on the Indian-made Murdochs with a little expense and some elbow grease. First thing I did on mine was to use a combination of files and 80-grit sandpaper to remove alot of steel on the butt frame and slightly recontour it to be more authentic. There isn't a whole lot you can do, but the steel is fairly thick and you can make some improvements. This also recontours the brass medallion insert giving it more rounded corders and a lower overall profile. I took a Dremel took and made a big reduction in the thickness of the ram's horns...probably 50% of the width. Then I took a torch and heated the ram's horn rede hot and curled them inwards in a tighter pattern. At the made time I reworked the touch-hole pin to make it round and much, much smaller. The barrel was reworked by filing off the band at the muzzel end and softening the "Buck Rogers ray-gun" look. I ordered a cock set and trigger from TRS and installed them. When finished, I probably had less than $20 in parts and a much nicer looking pistol. Not any more authentic - it's still way too big - but still IMHO better looking. The last step was blueing which I did with a simple, cold blueing agent which I finished with 0000 steel wool. Now it looks a bit older and not shiney. This is a nice project for anyone who wants to put in the time. |
Is there any chance you have pics?
...I'd really like to see the finished product.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams
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Mike W Grant
Location: UK, Exiled Scot in England Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu 17 Feb, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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and me! pics please!
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Mike W Grant
Location: UK, Exiled Scot in England Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Lin Robinson wrote: |
There have probably been more projects ruined with a Dremel tool than have ever been completed. Take it from someone who knows. I use mine for removing stock on knife handles, polishing and cutting off screws, but no delicate work. If you want to engrave it, the only way to do it properly is with gravers and a chasing hammer. Otherwise you risk ruining your pistol.
There is evidence of bluing remaining on these pistols. I suspect the engraving was picked out with silver or gold leaf on the more expensive pistols while the engraving on lesser guns was either filled with brass or left plain, more likely the latter. It will show up through the blued finish it just does not jump out at you. |
Lin
So do you think engraving is possible and if so with what tool? Its got to be electric as I am not into hand stuff which requires patience?
Cheers Mike
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GG Osborne
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Dremel tools are too slow for good, accurate cutting of anything but wood. It would take a very high RPM tool, probably operated on compressed gas or a special, high RPM electric tool with carbide or diamond-tipped bits to do anything other than make some scratches you would be ashamed of. Believe me, I know!
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Simon G.
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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So do you think engraving is possible and if so with what tool? Its got to be electric as I am not into hand stuff which requires patience? |
Although I have never attempted this myself (yet), here is a thread (scroll to end of second post) showing quite a beautiful example of engravings (scottish-themed, to boot!) done on a baskethilt with a Dremel (equipped with a diamond engraving tool).
On the other hand, Kirk Lee Spencer seems obscenely competent at making beautiful things... So perhaps not everyone can pull it off. But you could always ask him for pointers I suppose.
I would be quite interested in trying this out myself, but I'll start with (hopefully) easier things.
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Jack W. Englund
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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A while back I was invited to assist in the ?? of engraving ( which I DO NOT DO ) by the owner of this site + a very good master gun builder ( close friend. but not the site owner) Needless to say I soon got around to " Highland Scots all Steel pistols"
My "Puny contribution " was presenting the guns. Boy did I learn just what it takes to engrave. If you are interested go here - http://www.engravingforum.com/showthread.php?t=1391&page=13
Jack
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Sun 20 Feb, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Simon G. wrote: |
Although I have never attempted this myself (yet), here is a thread (scroll to end of second post) showing quite a beautiful example of engravings (scottish-themed, to boot!) done on a baskethilt with a Dremel (equipped with a diamond engraving tool).
On the other hand, Kirk Lee Spencer seems obscenely competent at making beautiful things... So perhaps not everyone can pull it off. But you could always ask him for pointers I suppose.
I would be quite interested in trying this out myself, but I'll start with (hopefully) easier things. |
I think Kirk did an outstanding job of engraving his Cold Steel basket hilt. But, do I think anyone can do that....no I don't, at least not with a Dremel tool. Dremels are made for (relatively) high speed stock removal on small projects, mostly working with wood or similar materials. It is very easy to let the tool get away from you and ruin a work piece. I have done so from time to time which is why I have relegated my tool to the uses I stated earlier. Also, if you examine the engraving on Kirk's sword it is obvious that it was not done with a graver. Do not misunderstand what I am saying because it does look great, but a piece decorated with graver and chasing hammer is going to look more authentic.
My advice to anyone who wants to use a Dremel for engraving is practice a lot on throwaway work pieces and keep a lot of extra diamond bits on hand because you are going to wear out a lot of them over the course of a project.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Mike W Grant
Location: UK, Exiled Scot in England Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Aye I think you are all correct the dremmel is not fit for the job in most hands, i've used them before and in-fact today to engrave my name on a plaid brooch and it was crap....looks like my 22 month wrote my name....
Yes thats me in the picture and my beautiful Danish "Wife To Be"! Scotland + Denmark = Warrior Nation
"Stand Fast Creag Eileachaidh"
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Mike W Grant
Location: UK, Exiled Scot in England Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Simon G. wrote: |
Although I have never attempted this myself (yet), here is a thread (scroll to end of second post) showing quite a beautiful example of engravings (scottish-themed, to boot!) done on a baskethilt with a Dremel (equipped with a diamond engraving tool).
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Absolutely lovely work, but I agree with Lin that you can spot it was Dremmel'd a mile away which is a real pity. But none the less a real work of art. It may be better to leave it outside for a year or two and let th rust take hold of the engraving and then clean it up, it will be difficult to spot it was not original then! But lovely item and very informative thread!
Yes thats me in the picture and my beautiful Danish "Wife To Be"! Scotland + Denmark = Warrior Nation
"Stand Fast Creag Eileachaidh"
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Phil D.
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| Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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The engraving helps somewhat (at least in my eyes)...
"A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world." -- Louis Pasteur
"A gentleman should never leave the house without a sharp knife, a good watch, and great hat."
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Simon G.
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| Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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That is beautifully done indeed. I would very much like to know how and by whom.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GG Osborne wrote: | | Dremel tools are too slow for good, accurate cutting of anything but wood. It would take a very high RPM tool, probably operated on compressed gas or a special, high RPM electric tool with carbide or diamond-tipped bits to do anything other than make some scratches you would be ashamed of. Believe me, I know! |
For detailed work and mostly difficult to control the dremel has it's disadvantages maybe with a lot of the tool bits, stones etc ...
but I find that with the cutting wheels even the hardest steel gets cut like butter ! In fact they cut so aggressively that with the gyroscopic effect of the rapidly spinning disks cutting isn't the problem but cutting where one wants to cut can be challenging.
The cutting wheels are also fragile so that trying to cut in a curve will often see the cutting wheel chatter to pieces.
One can cut wider grooves by using multiple cutting wheels at the same time, this cuts slower but wider cuts and the multiple disks don't break quite as readily.
Don't know how relevant the above is to this Topic but I wanted to give my experience with dremels that may not match the experience of others using different dremel cutting or grinding heads.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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This is a standard topic