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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some close-ups of the etching...


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Proof disc with Urdu (?) cartouche

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EIC Lion

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VR cypher

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Cartouche with officer's initials
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Fri 16 May, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A British Pattern 1827 Rifle Officer's Sword, probably made in Germany. Most of the etching has been polished off, sadly, so it is not possible to identify the retailer of the sword. The blade is just under an inch wide at the ricasso, and is 32.5" long. I have not yet weighed it, but it feels about right (regulation weight was not to be less than 1 lb. 15 oz.). Steel hilt with strung bugle decoration, fish skin grip with twisted copper wire. The blade is not sharpened and probably belonged to an officer in a volunteer battalion. No scabbard, but it would have originally had a steel scabbard.











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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,896

PostPosted: Fri 16 May, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice acquisitions this spring Jonathan. It is often the swords we find with a lot of "character" that find happy homes with us.

This thread underlines the importance of durable hosting for images and I apologize for hoping myopera would last forever. i do have the image files for all those blank holes in posts I have made and can repost any of interest (just quote a specific post).

This spring has also seen a couple of more eagles come to my eryie. I am mostly in an order of total chaos right now but have a few pictures of them.

Cheers

GC



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Osborn type "weeping" eagle early 19th century. Possibly cutlered in the US

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A Solingen blade, not at all common on this eagle type

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Type VI Widmann, near his last year and continued by Horstmann [ Download ]

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Devoid of its blue and gilt. A prettier one got away for a song while I was busy. [ Download ]
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Fri 16 May, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, Glen. You have some nice new ones, too!

The sword I got in March does have character, but also an interesting provenance (if I am right about the initials). The P1827 Rifle Officer's Sword was a gift from my wife. She knew I wanted an antique saber to play with (and maybe sharpen) since replicas of military swords fail on so many levels. She found one for a great price, and it is a good solid sword, too, with no play in the hilt and a straight (as in not unnaturally bent) blade. Now I just need to identify the maker's stamp on the guard and I will be a happy collector.

As for image hosting, I will be sad if Photobucket dies.
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Pierre Dobeck




Location: France
Joined: 06 Mar 2014

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 21 May, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject: 1821 French infantry officer Klingenthal         Reply with quote

Here is a French Model 1821 infantry officer sword

It was produced in Klingenthal

the blade is in damascus



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pierrotd68
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Wed 21 May, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pierre,
That is a beautiful sword. I love the blade! The photos are excellent, too. Thank you for sharing!

Jonathan
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Aidan J. Cumming




Location: California
Joined: 06 Sep 2014

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject: Does anyone know what the heck this is?         Reply with quote

So this sword is a puzzler. I know it's Civil War era-ish for sure; it's W.H. Horstmann & Sons, Philadelphia, as inscribed at the base of the blade. The blade itself is ornately engraved, with "U.S." inscribed partway down (which you can see in the photo). So that's all fairly straight forward. But then we get to the hilt. A simple brass reverse p style hilt with no grip at all. As far as I can tell, this doesn't match any American designs, even pre-1800. The reverse p itself is not really odd, it's just not quite like any standard American or British models I've seen, and the lack of any kind of grip besides the solid brass is weirder still. The sword belongs to friend of mine, and it is family heirloom of sorts. It must be a custom made weapon, but what of the hilt, and why would it have been done this way? Even the scabbard seems wrong. My friend says it is cavalry, and indeed it has all the elements of various models of cavalry sabre, but at the same time all the details don't match a single one. It is not heavy in the slightest, and in fact is quite lively and well balanced in the hand. I apologize for the shafty picture quality, these were sent to me by the swords owner. If anyone can help me out here that would be wonderful. Thanks so much.


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blade close-up

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blade 2

Hoping is what people do before they fail.
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aldan, you pics rang a bell with me. Though your blade doesn't have any Naval designations, the scabbard and hanger is very naval. Here is something very, very similar.....

http://www.antiqueswordsonline.com/19th-centu...-horstmann

inkothemgard!
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,896

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Does anyone know what the heck this is?         Reply with quote

Aidan J. Cumming wrote:
So this sword is a puzzler. I know it's Civil War era-ish for sure; it's W.H. Horstmann & Sons, Philadelphia, as inscribed at the base of the blade. The blade itself is ornately engraved, with "U.S." inscribed partway down (which you can see in the photo). So that's all fairly straight forward. But then we get to the hilt. A simple brass reverse p style hilt with no grip at all. As far as I can tell, this doesn't match any American designs, even pre-1800. The reverse p itself is not really odd, it's just not quite like any standard American or British models I've seen, and the lack of any kind of grip besides the solid brass is weirder still. The sword belongs to friend of mine, and it is family heirloom of sorts. It must be a custom made weapon, but what of the hilt, and why would it have been done this way? Even the scabbard seems wrong. My friend says it is cavalry, and indeed it has all the elements of various models of cavalry sabre, but at the same time all the details don't match a single one. It is not heavy in the slightest, and in fact is quite lively and well balanced in the hand. I apologize for the shafty picture quality, these were sent to me by the swords owner. If anyone can help me out here that would be wonderful. Thanks so much.


These turn up in variations of blades and scabbards. Some with naval etches. All with Horstmann blades. Sometimes listed as "Stockton Blues" militia swords or non-regulation naval swords in sharkskin scabbards. Later texts list them as Bannerman compilations using surplus parts. The hilt is loosely based on the French 1755? 1757? cavalry and infantry swords. They are not ACW period swords but in 1900s catalogs from Bannerman.

Cheers

GC
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,896

PostPosted: Fri 10 Oct, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My eagles and some other swords. Some predate the 19th century.



Cheers

GC
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Sat 11 Oct, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is a great pic, Glen! I love seeing them nesting together.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,896

PostPosted: Sun 12 Oct, 2014 6:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
That is a great pic, Glen! I love seeing them nesting together.


Thanks Jonathan

Aside from finding an elusive Bolton or Bates fighting sabre, the eyrie is fairly complete. It is no wonder that most of the US eagle pommel swords were dressy, with blue&gillt but the plainer examples meant for work are my real passion. Being more of a bottom dweller as far as the market goes, those favorites have been more economical in the end. A hope would be to upgrade some of them and rotate out a few examples. Although I have been pairing quite a bit, it has been to have a dressy and plain, as well being sabre or spadroon. You can see that with the Ketland and Osborn pairs.

I have a 4'x4' closet I would love to redo with more long shelves but I do have one in there to inventory quite a few others. Ideally, have them all accessible individually for examination/photos/whatever. I seem to be doomed to be too cozy with little space.

Cheers

GC
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Wed 30 Sep, 2015 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A US Model 1860 Cavalry Saber, probably sold by Tomes, Son & Melvain of New York to the Ordnance Department in 1861 or 1862.







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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Wed 30 Sep, 2015 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unstamped Nathan Starr NCO sword. Either farmed out or a "example" sword from around 1828.


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inkothemgard!
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Sun 04 Oct, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject: Show Us Your 19th Century Swords!         Reply with quote


I love the way Glen's swords are arranged. So neat. Eek!

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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Alan Massey




Location: Nova Scotia
Joined: 01 Oct 2016

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu 20 Oct, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: 1796 HC sword...         Reply with quote

Woolley and Deakin HC sword, with scabbard.


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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 805

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct, 2016 4:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ottoman cavalry kilij, just under 102cms in scabbard. Sword is 97.5cms, blade is 82cms measured from the peak of the quillon block to the tip of the blade, horn grips with a steel guard and integral knuckle bow and a steel grip strap. The pommel is pierced for a wrist lanyard. European blade (Hungarian?). Single broad fuller to each blade face. Scabbard with steel fittings and double suspension rings with metal spiral stitching.

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Matt Donaghy




Location: Banbury
Joined: 28 Oct 2017

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Pattern Sword         Reply with quote

I'm a bit late to this, I have recently acquired an 1853 Pattern Sword, no mark on it except some Indian/Arabic letters, having a lot of fun trying to identify it, but no results


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M Donaghy
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Adam Simmonds




Location: Henley-on-Thames
Joined: 10 Jun 2006

Posts: 137

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another 1821 Pattern French Infantry Officer's Sword to add to the mix.

I recently bought this example off ebay and it is the first time I have had the pleasure of examining one closely.

It is beautifully composed with floral motifs on the sweeping brass hilt, a black horn handle with twisted brass wire (presumably to add grip as well as aesthetic pizzaz) and a kinked butt cap which catches the end of the knucklebow and leans into the base of the hand in a semi pistol grip. The angled butt cap together with the overall shape of the handle feels ergonomic and facilitates a natural and precise control.

The blade seems slightly atypical for the type. Based purely on my observation of this example and pictures of the type online, most seem to have been fitted with (as per the exceptionally fine example displayed by Pierre Dobeck above) a blade similar in length and width but with a more pronounced curve and a single edged 'hatchet' point.

I speculate that this example may have been made for a civilian or officer who wanted a version of the type with a slightly more thrust oriented blade. In other details such as the double fuller (one running down the centre of the blade and a narrower trench near the spine) and length (this measures from hilt to tip circa 30 1/4 inches) it appears very similar to the more typical blade type.

This example was never sharpened and is lacking any maker's or military marks, which leads me to believe that it was never used and / or issued if intended for the military. There is movement between both the grip / knucklebow and the tang / blade which re-peening might address.

All in all it seems a very pretty sword which sits confidently in the hand behind a stout, light blade.

The attached pictures are taken from the ebay listing. It looks much better in the flesh.



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Last edited by Adam Simmonds on Thu 08 Mar, 2018 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Adam Simmonds




Location: Henley-on-Thames
Joined: 10 Jun 2006

Posts: 137

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A few more pics of the same.....


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