Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Longswords in the hands of common soldiers? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 
Author Message
Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,420

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
In this topic you can see swiss and landsknecht foot soldiers with longswords on their belts in battle scenes:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21780


What he said. Yes it was common. longswords were actually quite common sidearms for professional soldiers and show up in a lot of artwork from the 14th, 15th, and 16th Centuries, some of which you'll see in the above thread. I even know of a (fanciful) period painting of a peasant woman carrying one in hell:



J

Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum

Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,420

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Larry Bohnham wrote:
I still think that if I were a medieval man who made his living fighting and killing, I'd probably have a pretty fair idea how to use a long sword, it's not after all some lost Jedi magical art, it was just one more edged weapon in an age of edged weapons.

Based on my personal experience, when I first picked up a langenschwert, my previous martial arts training transfered very nicely to that weapon in that there are only so many ways a human body can wield a sword. Reading some of the fechtbuchen and watching contemporary instructional videos on the European sword techniques merely added some polish and techniques specific to the length of the weapon and its double edged configuration. Musashi himself in the Book of Five Rings describes half swording with the Katana, for instance, so I think anybody reasonably well trained and versed in martial techniques could have picked up a langenschwert and been reasonably proficient with some practice. Add in some time comparing notes with fellow warriors who were familiar with that type sword and or just watching others spar or tourney fight with them, and I think he would have done quite well with the thing. Once you understand and can use such concepts as fencing distance, timing and foot work, it really doesn't matter if you are wielding a longsword, falchion, mace, or wakizashi as the body will respond as its been trained. Combine that with a determined combat mind set and it once again proves that it's not weapons that are dangerous, it's the hand that holds them.

So I still think it very reasonable to include such a sword in man-at-arms kit, besides the things are just plain cool to have.


While I agree commoners did carry longsword, I completely disagree with the above statement. Using a longsword effectively is very counter-intuitive and requires extensive training. If you are used to using a sword and shield in some re-enactment or larp context, and shift to a longsword in a context where you will really be put to a test, like fighting with a trained opponent in a tournament, you'll get a wakeup call.

J

Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum

Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,420

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 2:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glennan Carnie wrote:
Probably my favourite two books on the subject:

The Time traveller's Guide to the Fourteenth Century by Ian Mortimer
Daily Life in Chaucer's England by Forgeng and McLean

Daily Life is rather more re-enactor oriented, but gives a good broad overview of all aspects of late medieval life.

I highly recommend either for providing a social context to any martial studies


I think one of the things to watch out for here is that England is very different in the 14th - 15th Century from Central Europe where most of the fechtbucher come from. That is a source of a lot of confusion regarding this period in particular and the Middle Ages in general.

J

Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum

Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,420

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Douglas S wrote:

Thanks, I read those about 20 years ago. Bye.


Douglas,

Don't ditch the thread, you asked a legitimate question, I think the response you got may have been due to a misread of your tone and was probably unintentional.

Actually, I think a sword is most certainly a sidarm in a role analagous to a pistol through most of pre-industrial times going back to the Romans. The important difference is that while today the principle arm of a soldier is a very effective assault rifle or light machine gun which can potentially kill dozens of enemies at ranges from 5 meters to 500, the principle weapons in period such as a pike, a javelin, a crossbow, an arquebus, a halberd, or a lance, (to name a few) are limited in their use either for certain ranges / circumstances, or because they break (as lances often do) or because they reload very slowly, or because limited ammunition could be carried.

In other words, you could imagine a sword in the sidearm role of a pistol if your primary weapon was a single-shot musket for example, or a trio of pilum. It's a sidearm in an era when the sidearm was very important, not the tertiary afterthought it usually is today.

J

Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum

Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
View user's profile Send private message
Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 616

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
Glennan Carnie wrote:
Probably my favourite two books on the subject:

The Time traveller's Guide to the Fourteenth Century by Ian Mortimer
Daily Life in Chaucer's England by Forgeng and McLean

Daily Life is rather more re-enactor oriented, but gives a good broad overview of all aspects of late medieval life.

I highly recommend either for providing a social context to any martial studies


I think one of the things to watch out for here is that England is very different in the 14th - 15th Century from Central Europe where most of the fechtbucher come from. That is a source of a lot of confusion regarding this period in particular and the Middle Ages in general.

J


I agree. There are too many sweeping generalizations in this thread (except from Randal Moffet) where Anglo-centric reading has conflated the peculiar social conditions in England to the rest of western Europe. And wayyyyyy too much LARPer - Re-enactor supposition stated as fact! Choose one time and place to look at - then something meaningful can be discussed. Worried
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
N Cioran




Location: Toronto
Joined: 21 Nov 2010

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 6:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mostly I would like to know what the attribution of the painting of Mad Meg in Hell...

Happy

Cole
View user's profile Send private message
N Cioran




Location: Toronto
Joined: 21 Nov 2010

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Brueghel, 1562...

Happy

Cole
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,121

PostPosted: Sat 05 Feb, 2011 6:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David,

I do not think it would be uncommon to see a man about town with a sword on. For the most part it does not seem to have caused a great deal of problems either though.

Not all towns allowed everyone to just carry arms about. The gate watch would take weapons sometimes upon entrance into the town. That said mostly this is done when the town leadership fears armed uprisings.

Legally any gentleman or civic leader could bear arms, almost anywhere in a town or city. This seems to extend to their followings as well.

Each town is going to maintain different laws regarding arms but for the most part of the towns and cities I have looked at in detail it is usually only when there is an issue these laws are enforced, For the most part no one cared much as there were few issues.

Take a look at town books of fines for a better idea. The Southampton Record Series has one over the late medieval period that is for Soton.

There is one exception in Soton- sailors from outside the town, though they do seem to get away often with carrying weapons around, you see arrests of them.

So not per se a brute squad but perhaps something more like the west in the 19th century.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Longswords in the hands of common soldiers?
Page 4 of 4 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum