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Michael G.
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 Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy V. Krause wrote: |
Eol's sword Gurthang could freaking talk! Also awesome!!
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Of course the whole episode with Gurthang talking to Turin was lifted from the story of Kullervo in the Kalevala.
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Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: |
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I think it's worth saying that having realistic weapons in a fantasy setting is a valuable thing. Any fantasy setting may have traits that are ridiculous in comparison to our world, but those traits must operate on their own special sort of logic. Having a fantasy world in which literally anything is possible is just boring. If there's magic, it should have a system and, yes, limitations. Talking animals are all well and good, but wouldn't a scene of the character having a conversation with a dog be even better if he/she was fastidiously trying to take a notch out of his/her sword?
Like Ryan said: swords that don't rust are kind of boring in most circumstances. The fantasy world has got to be real in it's own way, you know.
And now I think my geekiness is showing.  Wasn't trying to pick a fight with you Patrick, by the way! Just got my brain going, and I often have a difficult time stopping its inertia. Heheh.
Ex animo,
Connor
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Michael G. wrote: | | Jeremy V. Krause wrote: |
Eol's sword Gurthang could freaking talk! Also awesome!!
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Of course the whole episode with Gurthang talking to Turin was lifted from the story of Kullervo in the Kalevala. |
That's right Michael!!
You got me. That's what I get for not checking. I get the those iconic tragic fellows confused. . .
Oh, and IMO a geek-out thread beats many threads that come up with LONG histories of folks pondering wild historical weapon factors and uses. If the thread is wacky then let it be WACKY!
BTW I don't read modern fantasy. I became spoiled on Tolkien. I don't have time for the rest of it.
I read the Dragonlance Chronicles at 14 because I wanted the magic of LOTR to continue for me and well. . . these books came up a little bit short. . . just a little. . . 
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David Clark
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Get ye some Steven Erikson! The "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series is incredible. He is a master story teller to the utmost degree.
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Quinn W.
Location: Bellingham, WA Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I also personally prefer realism in fantasy, as, to quote the Disney/Pixar "Incredibles" movie, "When everyone's super... no one is." Limitations make said super-weapons all the more impressive. If massive baddies just drop out of the sky left and right, it eventually gets to the point where you're thinking "Another 200 foot dragon? Well, here we go again, I guess."
Personally, I like to look at things on what I call a clockwork principle. If you were to set up this world and then let it go completely on its own, how long would it last before everything completely fell apart? I think a world where everybody and their grandmothers can shoot fireballs would be complete chaos.
Which is precisely why I can have a discussion about swords that don't rust while there are talking mice about. I am totally fine if that world runs under a completely different set of rules than ours does, as long as there is indeed a set of rules. I only have trouble suspending disbelief when I start to feel that the writer/director is just tossing in new exciting magical things because they feel like adding some more pizazz to their story, and not because it actually makes sense in the context of that world.
"Some say that the age of chivalry is past, that the spirit of romance is dead. The age of chivalry is never past, so long as there is a wrong left unredressed on earth"
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well I saw the film and liked the film on it's own merits and since I never read the books I'm not suffering from the " They added WHAT ! And they didn't mention some other WHAT that is actually essential to the story ".
Maybe I'll go and read the books and start fresh trying to not even consider the films and enjoy the books for the kind of subtleties that don't translate well in movie form and even more when the Director decide that they have better ideas than what is in the Classic they are supposedly reproducing in film !
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quinn W. wrote: | I also personally prefer realism in fantasy, as, to quote the Disney/Pixar "Incredibles" movie, "When everyone's super... no one is." Limitations make said super-weapons all the more impressive. If massive baddies just drop out of the sky left and right, it eventually gets to the point where you're thinking "Another 200 foot dragon? Well, here we go again, I guess."
Personally, I like to look at things on what I call a clockwork principle. If you were to set up this world and then let it go completely on its own, how long would it last before everything completely fell apart? I think a world where everybody and their grandmothers can shoot fireballs would be complete chaos.
Which is precisely why I can have a discussion about swords that don't rust while there are talking mice about. I am totally fine if that world runs under a completely different set of rules than ours does, as long as there is indeed a set of rules. I only have trouble suspending disbelief when I start to feel that the writer/director is just tossing in new exciting magical things because they feel like adding some more pizazz to their story, and not because it actually makes sense in the context of that world. |
Well said. There has to be that internal logic. I've heard people justify bad, senseless fight choreography in movies by saying "it's a fantasy movie, so what does it matter?" But really, the fact that it's a fantasy movie makes it matter even more! If the creator wants us to suspend disbelief, then they really have to sell the premise to us, and if too much stuff is unbelievable--if the world the fiction creates wouldn't work according to a set system of logic, then the story has failed.
A fantasy without logic is just a fairy-tale, and not a particularly good one at that.
Ex animo,
Connor
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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OK, enough beating around the bush, I'm just going to say what everyone is really thinking:
If Aslan and Gandalf got into a fight, who would win?
Who is - the deadliest warrior?
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| J.D. Crawford wrote: | OK, enough beating around the bush, I'm just going to say what everyone is really thinking:
If Aslan and Gandalf got into a fight, who would win?
Who is - the deadliest warrior? |
Oh dear lord no.
That there is just plain wrong.
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Ryan J. Kadwell
Location: Queensland, Australia Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| J.D. Crawford wrote: | OK, enough beating around the bush, I'm just going to say what everyone is really thinking:
If Aslan and Gandalf got into a fight, who would win?
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Anyone who gets to watch.
Anyone.
Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down!
Richard: When the fall’s all that’s left, it matters a great deal.
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Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed 15 Dec, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hahahaha!
But seriously. Gandalf.
Ex animo,
Connor
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2010 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And now I think my geekiness is showing. Wasn't trying to pick a fight with you Patrick, by the way! Just got my brain going, and I often have a difficult time stopping its inertia. Heheh. |
No worries here. I'm a lover of fantasy and science fiction, but I don't try to over analyze and attach too much logic to the subject. When Caspian gave Edwin the encrusted sword I did lean over to my wife and comment, "Don't tell me he's going to beat that on a rock, like Conan." 
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Quote: | | And now I think my geekiness is showing. Wasn't trying to pick a fight with you Patrick, by the way! Just got my brain going, and I often have a difficult time stopping its inertia. Heheh. |
No worries here. I'm a lover of fantasy and science fiction, but I don't try to over analyze and attach too much logic to the subject. When Caspian gave Edwin the encrusted sword I did lean over to my wife and comment, "Don't tell me he's going to beat that on a rock, like Conan." |
I laugh everytime I see that in Conan. The only thing funnier are the noises Arnold makes when he first tumbles in to the tomb. It's hard to keep the bitter, cold image of the Cimmerian up with that goofy accent.
Ex animo,
Connor
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This is a standard topic