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Troy G L Williams
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 Posted: Fri 03 Dec, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Another question about these helmets. Was there a chinstrap or were they held on to the head by maile?
v/r,
Troy Williams
"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Artis Aboltins
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| Posted: Fri 03 Dec, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert Rootslane wrote: | thank you
I must admit i never expected it to be put together this way... Why such a weird method of construction? Im sure a regular spangenhelm method or overlapping plates would pe more durable...
Also maby the wire was added in museoum for the helmet not to fall into peaces? |
Aparently, whoever made it had his reasons... perharps it is more flexiable than traditional one?
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Fri 03 Dec, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Another posibility is that it is a mockup, or a custom job made by someone who did not make a lot of helmets. This could also explain why it was put in a grave in the first place.
The viking period norse as a rule did not burry helmets or armour. This could be a sign that they where in high demand, and that while swords could be easily replaced, mail was a lot harder to come by. The one exception is the mounds at gjermundbu. Maybe they had a helmet and sleeveless mail vest that they actually felt they could go without?
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Matt Lukes
Industry Professional
Location: Vancouver, Canada Joined: 26 Jun 2010
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun 13 Feb, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Raino S wrote: | made this thing:
www.dejawolf.com/gjermundbu.jpg
it seems like it might have been a clamped construction, where the four faceplates are clamped to the spangens.
afterwards, it seems like the plates have then been stitched to hold the plates together. |
Doubtless the wire was the restorationist/museum's idea- but good eye noticing there are two separate parts to the bands; the 'clamp' idea is interesting, but I don't see it being practical or desirable really- it's much simpler to see the outer, curved-face strips simply being applied to the exterior as reinforcement as was done 900 years earlier by the romans, who in the 2nd century CE began applying two crossbars to their helmets like this to strengthen them.
Ohhhh- pillage THEN burn...
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Johan Gemvik
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| Posted: Sun 13 Feb, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Raino S wrote: | made this thing:
www.dejawolf.com/gjermundbu.jpg
it seems like it might have been a clamped construction, where the four faceplates are clamped to the spangens.
afterwards, it seems like the plates have then been stitched to hold the plates together. |
Is there a place on the actual find where plate is held from both sides like that ,and is the cross really hollow?
The plate end seen in the photo can just as easily be the remains of the missing left forehead plate of a 4 section self-overlap spangen, where the cross is added afterward as reinforcement and not fastening. This would also make it a fully functional helmet, unlike clamping double bands which would let the side plates loosen and break off from impact and perhaps even worse provide far less structural integrity versus indentation into the skull, since a small piece of plate is far easier to deform than a larger supporting dome. Not only that but it could even make for the top corner of a side plate being driven into the skull from even a moderate force impact loosening the clamp, unless the underlying band is going all the way over from both sides.
Looking at the superb quality of the Gjermundbu maille why would the same warrior use the equivalent of a toy helmet? Yes, it could have been made in haste by someone who's not really an armourer, although detail on the glasses suggest a skilled blacksmith at least, but as I said, is there any real hard evidence of this unique clamp function? If there is, I'd very much like to see a photo of it. Are there any photos or sketches of the inside of the hemlet plates, today it's stuck on that WWII helmet so you can't see.
Another thing is the top spike. I'd love to see a closeup photo of it.
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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