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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 04 Nov, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Hi Jean,

I think you could turn this into an upgrade project, as that belt doesn't look like it would be hard to remove, so some trimming and shaping could be done. I think it could be turned into something more than acceptable, as well as a more fitting home for your Morehead (Which I would like to have myself.)


Well, I'll see it in " person " first before I take out the exacto and carving tools and my experience making a scabbard or modifying a scabbard is close to nil. Wink

If I did decide to put in the work needed for a DIY project I think I would just buy some wood and carve myself up a core and cover it myself with leather, but unless I really put in a lot of effort into it, it would be just a storage scabbard, and this one will do for the moment ...... guess I'm just lazy about making stuff myself. Wink Laughing Out Loud Cool

As to the sword, it really does look good. Happy

Not that giving it a Type designation is that important I wonder what Oakeshott type you would assign to it ?

Double fullers sort of confuse me or distract me from easily typing this sword but here are some possibilities:

A) Type X blade as the fullers extend to very close to the tip and if the centre ridge was removed giving it only one wide fuller it seem like a type X is a strong possibility.

B) Type XII if the blade taper is great enough ? ( Weak possibility )

C) Type XIII in the wide spatulate point, but then the fullers may end too close to the point for a type XIII , but functionally it looks to me like it would cut and behave very much like a type XIII or something in between a type XII and XIII. ( Also a weaker possibility or at least depending on the degree of profile taper hard to be sure of just from a pic which may distort proportion. And like I just wrote mostly funtionally similar to a type XIII in the point )

D) There are always some swords that fall somewhere out of easy classification having blade feature overlapping different types.

It's easy to say that it's not a type XVII or XIV or any other types at least.

Anyway, I just see the Typology as useful shorthand for written communication and very useful for the 90% of swords that we can easily assign to a type without to many of us disagreeing about it.

When I read the Oakeshott books I often see blades that sort of could be given a different type than what Oakeshott decided on at the time of writing his books since it often depends on what feels right or closest in one person's opinion depending on what features one gives the most importance.

The blade types that I find the most a " judgement " call are the type X, XI, XII and XIII where in some cases it is easy to chose where a sword belongs but in other cases I just can't decide exactly where to put them.

Well a touch off Topic, but since it's my Topic I guess I can sort of ask other questions of a general nature although it does still relate to this sword.

The Albion Vigil is very close in looks and I would guess that both the Albion sword and the OlliN sword are based on the same original but are somewhat differently proportioned but on the Albion site it is identified as a type X blade as was the original by Oakeshott, so that type seems very credible to me:
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...igil-x.htm

The OlliN blade is slightly longer and narrower than the Albion blade and the fullers seem to end closer to the point on the OlliN sword. ( Note I like both and aesthetically they are both very desirable swords ).

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Being a compulsive tinkerer I look at that scabbard/belt and see any number of ways I could make it better in an afternoon, but that's me and I like projects.

I'd go with the Type X designation as well, fullers withstanding. I don't see enough taper for a Type XII, nor is it quite spatulate enough to be a Type XIII. The Morehead appears to be inspired by the Witham sword in the British Museum, as the Vigil is. For myself I rarely refer to Oakeshotts typology anymore. Since Ewarts time so many swords have come to light that don't really fit neatly into his classification. At times our propensity to squeeze things into catagories turns into a hinderance instead of a help. Typologies can still be useful, I just rarely refer to them anymore. They are an excellent method of quick indentification though.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, the typology is useful except when it isn't and unfortunately Oakeshott is no longer among us so that we could discuss it with him. ( That would have been interesting, and being the great gentleman he was, I think one could have approached him with questions about the typology and have it be an open minded discussion on both sides: I think Oakeshott changed his mind over the years about where some specific swords belonged in the typology and new discoveries would have been factored in and the typology refined or modified ).

I sort of think that some of the Types Oakeshott invented as just to fine in distinction of blades that look a lot alike to me in general shape but vary somewhat in profile taper or length/width of fullers, but are more variants of the same basic shape. But other types are very distinct from each other and easy to assign a type to.

Like I wrote in my previous post those fine distinctions happen mostly with the type X, XI, XII while with the XIII one can separate a XIII from the previous by having much less profile taper: But most of these do have a lot in common.
( Sort of an X*** family of variations on a theme rather than completely different shapes in my opinion ).

Other types like the XIV, XV, XVI, XVII are more distinct and can't be easily confused with each other.

The XV and the XVIII can be ambiguous as a worn XVIII can be almost the same as a XV.

Patrick: Oh, but with the Morehead sword I agree with you that it fits the X type, now that I think about it more. Wink Cool

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's a "Double-Fullered Oakeshott Type X bladed Sword". Saying this type of descriptive phrase is exactly how Oakeshott created the system to be used.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
It's a "Double-Fullered Oakeshott Type X bladed Sword". Saying this type of descriptive phrase is exactly how Oakeshott created the system to be used.


Which is a good thing as I tend to like the type X and I'm now certainly convinced about this specific sword's type.

I agree this is the intent of the system and very often we can use it to communicate an accurate picture of a sword in words when showing a pic is not possible or practical.

Anyway, I did go a bit too much off-Topic but to get back on-Topic I really love the look of this sword and very much look forward to knowing how it handles and I will certainly give my subjective impressions when I get it.

( Note: I think I was probably overthinking it a bit. Wink Laughing Out Loud Cool ).

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean, how does Olin secure the pommels on their swords? Are they threaded? I don't see a rivet block in the photos on KoAs site.
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Jean, how does Olin secure the pommels on their swords? Are they threaded? I don't see a rivet block in the photos on KoAs site.


Kult of Athena lists them as peened. Happy On a few of them, you can see where they ground it flush. On others, it's basically invisible.

I really dig their falchion.

Happy

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Jean, how does Olin secure the pommels on their swords? Are they threaded? I don't see a rivet block in the photos on KoAs site.


My RavenWolf is peened and I think they all are peened except maybe if they accept a commission for a historical type that was threaded, mostly maybe fitting one of their blades to a basket hilted sword supplies by the customer from another source/maker.

Although, I must admit that I may be guessing a bit and OlliN should confirm the above.

They might do a threaded tang on request but their default method seems to be peened, as far as I know.

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Patrick Kelly wrote:
Jean, how does Olin secure the pommels on their swords? Are they threaded? I don't see a rivet block in the photos on KoAs site.


Kult of Athena lists them as peened. Happy On a few of them, you can see where they ground it flush. On others, it's basically invisible.

I really dig their falchion.


Hold on to your wallet Kult of Athena has the OlliN Falchion as well as a few other of their other swords.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...Falchion+C

Very tempting for me but I hope that KoA will continue to stock OlliN swords so that I can buy others later but not all at the same time. Wink Laughing Out Loud

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Hold on to your wallet Kult of Athena has the OlliN Falchion as well as a few other of their other swords.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...Falchion+C


That would be my first pick. I really like that falchion. Great price, too.

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 8:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Kult of Athena lists them as peened. Happy On a few of them, you can see where they ground it flush. On others, it's basically invisible.

I really dig their falchion.


You're correct Chewie, I took a closer look at KoA photos of another Olin sword and it appears as you say.

I'm totally with you on the falchion, I really want that.

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PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 9:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is there any historical basis to their Legion XII Sword?
Happy

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Is there any historical basis to their Legion XII Sword?


It vaguely resembles some illustrations I've seen of the early hispaniensis around the first century B.C., with quite a bit of artistic license thrown in. I like the look of it though.

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Robert Muse




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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: OlliN Magnus Koll Viking Sword         Reply with quote

Hi All,
Well I think this is great! I had to wait about three months for my custom made OlliN Magnus Koll Viking Sword, which is a work of art. Hard to believe the quality at that price. I have several more expensive Viking blade, but none pass this in quality or
appeal. I certainly will pick up another Viking from them now.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Anyway, the above for background information: What Ryan found and tried out with the Morehead that he said fit very well was the Robin Hood Movie sword scabbard: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=882503


Jean, co-incidentally, I bought the same scabbard because it perfectly fit a semi-custom piece I have which used a windlass blade. I removed most of the molded metal and extraneous stitchings to give it a plane warrior-monk look. Its the sword/scabbard next to the Mercenary Tailor shield, in the pciture you were commenting on the other day ('Shutting Down'). Great minds think alike! JD

Edit: you can see more of the scabbard here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...;start=132
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2010 4:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Anyway, the above for background information: What Ryan found and tried out with the Morehead that he said fit very well was the Robin Hood Movie sword scabbard: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=882503


Jean, co-incidentally, I bought the same scabbard because it perfectly fit a semi-custom piece I have which used a windlass blade. I removed most of the molded metal and extraneous stitchings to give it a plane warrior-monk look. Its the sword/scabbard next to the Mercenary Tailor shield, in the pciture you were commenting on the other day ('Shutting Down'). Great minds think alike! JD

Edit: you can see more of the scabbard here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...;start=132


Sounds good although I'm not too fussy about the accuracy of the scabbard so that even if some things are not 100% or even 75% accurate I won't mind as long as it's reasonably attractive ..... and I'm not motivated enough to work on it i.e. feeling lazy. Wink Laughing Out Loud

Oh, have you seen this about a 1:33 seminar in Ottawa next weekend, the odds are high I will be going unless there is a last minute reason why I can't:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21229

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 8:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, one thing I like about OlliN is that one is getting custom level work at high end small manufacturer's prices with their standard production models and they also do full custom work including making blades for someones elses project i.e. sell bare blades or use their blades to mount into a nice basket hilt for example.

http://ollinsworddesign.com/osd-bareblades.html

And also trainers: http://ollinsworddesign.com/osd-trainer.html

Somebody better buy that Falchion soon as the only thing stopping me is that I already blew my budget for a couple of months on the Morehead sword ....... The odds are great that I will buy one but I would rather wait for the next one early in the new year. ( But it's a struggle to wait until the first few days of 2011 Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud ).
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...Falchion+C

Here is another really tempting one:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...king+Sword

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd have already bought either the falchion or the Magnus Koll if I had the bones lying around. I like them both very much.

Please stop that Jean. Eek!

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 09 Nov, 2010 4:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I'd have already bought either the falchion or the Magnus Koll if I had the bones lying around. I like them both very much.

Please stop that Jean. Eek!


Yes, I set the trap and then I often trip it myself first. Wink Razz

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Chris Last




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PostPosted: Tue 09 Nov, 2010 7:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can't recommend the OlliN falchion enough. The thing is a piece of functional artwork. Here's my info when I got mine:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...n+falchion


Since then I've done some more cutting with it and the sword does things I didn't think possible. Cut right through a wool and linen padded doublet we had on a mock up target, the reverse edge can take melons apart. Amazing work.

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