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Matthew Stagmer
Industry Professional
Location: Maryland, USA Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Tue 02 Nov, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Nice work. Great job!
Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
Youtube.com/ThatWorks
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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 02 Nov, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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'aint bad at all. I can see it being fun to model and uvw cleanly.
(ex-concept artist and 3d modeller in the industry here - till I got crippled by RSI...)
only things I'd say is that flattening out the bust slightly would be more accurate given maille really does even out the body's curves. But on the other hand, its still positively flat chested compared to the average videogame character, so, you're still innovative in not have a XX bust size with its own IK elements...
there's something a little odd on the surcoat, in that, although that form is pretty appropriate, it looks a bit off on a female figure, and comes out looking close to being a modern a-line dress slapped onto a woman in maille. I wonder if there's a way to perhaps emphasise the toughness of the character by some detailing in there that can make it feel more dated? Part of that might be the colour palette, as its a very vivid red just now. Everyone knows that medieval people only wore brown. (only joking. I know a reenactor who did proper moss dying in an iron cauldron, and ended up with a dayglo green dress that no-one would beleive was "right". she ended up overdying it with modern dye to darken it off a bit to stop the hassle.)
Perhaps, ironically, the solution there would be to go towards the women's civillian fashion of a sideless cut surcote with the wide arm holes? Or maybe the character's arms blazoned on the surcote. something to help say "this is not a dress" on viewing.
just little details to bring it to life.
oh, and a strap on the kettlehat?
most of that could be done with texturing in the model I'd suspect, or at most a small bit of geometry, depending on your tech specs.
but all in all, it's pretty damn well done.
| Nathaniel C. wrote: | | By the way for any of you other guys reading if you haven't played Mount & Blade: Warband you're missing possibly one of the most historically accurate and most enjoyable games ever made. |
I can strongly reccommend not buying this awful, shocking, and thoroughly despicable computergame...
unless you want to lose your entire social life to becoming the marshal of your chosen realm and leading armies to defeat... as its absolutely brilliant fun.
(I'm not going to admit how many hours I've spent playing M&B and Warband. lets just say "too many", and that's without starting to mod the game, as I'm resisting doing... )
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2010 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Walter S wrote: | | Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | But you have no boobs!
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Good point... This is what happens when painting a picture without having proper reference. I will do something about it in the future. |
Like I've said before, there's not much that you'd need to do. At the very least, I don't think you'd need to do anything as drastic as repainting the entire midsection, and I may have exaggerated a bit for effect with regards to the amount of blousing in a tunic without fitted fastenings. Women's dresses and shirtwaists (blouses) from the 1950s might be a particularly fruitful source of good reference pictures in this respect.
| JG Elmslie wrote: | | there's something a little odd on the surcoat, in that, although that form is pretty appropriate, it looks a bit off on a female figure, and comes out looking close to being a modern a-line dress slapped onto a woman in maille. |
But medieval tunics and surcoats with wide gored skirts do look like dresses to the untutored modern eye! I'm a guy, but I have a rather pretty face, and when people see me in tunic and hose without a sword (or from an angle where the sword or dagger is not very visible) they usually mistake me for a girl at first. It doesn't help that knee-length shirtdresses have been getting more popular in the last couple of years or so; belted at the waist, they look very similar to a "Norman" tunic unless you know what differences to look for.
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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: |
| JG Elmslie wrote: | | there's something a little odd on the surcoat, in that, although that form is pretty appropriate, it looks a bit off on a female figure, and comes out looking close to being a modern a-line dress slapped onto a woman in maille. |
But medieval tunics and surcoats with wide gored skirts do look like dresses to the untutored modern eye! I'm a guy, but I have a rather pretty face, and when people see me in tunic and hose without a sword (or from an angle where the sword or dagger is not very visible) they usually mistake me for a girl at first. It doesn't help that knee-length shirtdresses have been getting more popular in the last couple of years or so; belted at the waist, they look very similar to a "Norman" tunic unless you know what differences to look for. |
That's exactly my point - because it is a style that is very ambiguous on its date, and could as easily be a man's surcoat from the 1320's, or a woman's dress line from the 2010's, as a designer, despite my usual target of historical accuracy, I'd say that some small detailing would be best to help make it clear that its not just a modern dress slapped onto a medieval figure, which is what the MOPs would most likely assume, ignorant of the fact the cut is actually appropriate...
that's my old career in design coming through there - sometimes, you have to emphasise detailing because customers miss the visual clues. in this case, my gut instinct is that it needs a little tweaking in trim and pattern, to help emphasise the date. a longer armpit cut, to the sideless surcoat, or the addition of the arms on the surcoat, or maybe a trimming on the edge of the arm - something to let the MOPs see that its not a dress bought out of Primark... after all, in a digital media, it's not like you can really replicate or differentiate the tactile texture of a hand-woven, dyed linen compared to a modern polyester. its hard enough to depict the specularity and tonal reflection of a natural fibre compared to a synthetic one, and the subtleties of feel and weight are almost impossible to convey in a digital character.
Well, unless they're going to be using Nvidia's PhysX 2.8.x, and APEX physics framework with soft-body cloth simulation, but that's frighteningly high-end content generation which is barely out of beta yet alone in general circulation... In which case, Walter S is a modelling god I should be asking for advice from...
erm, yeah. sorry. Geek stuff. tht probably made no sense whatsoever.
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Walter S
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| Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2010 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| JG Elmslie wrote: | | erm, yeah. sorry. Geek stuff. tht probably made no sense whatsoever. |
Hey, I like talking about geeky stuff - do you use any instant messenger?
I'm looking into the issue, I will show some results soon. As for physics, I can use pre-computed Havok.
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Walter S
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| Posted: Wed 03 Nov, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I did some redesigning - you can compare the new picture to the old one in the first post of this thread.
The surcoat is now armored in style of Visby coats of plate.
Maille chausses are now only partial, showing black turnshoes and off-white padded hosen.
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Thu 04 Nov, 2010 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Very nice. I like the look of this surcoat a lot more. I would suggest one more change to the legs though. I don't think mail chausses like that would stay in place. If you want to show them like they are now, I suggest you show mail chausses (full, without a foot) with padded cuisses over them. In effect, the mail part would stick out from under the padded upper legs. Whereas now the padded part is sticking out from under the mail part. It looks almost the same, but makes a lot more sense IMHO.
The Knights Hospitaller: http://www.hospitaalridders.nl
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 04 Nov, 2010 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Much better now as a coat of plates but I would add a few rivets in the upper chest area to suggest two large plates with rivets around the perimeter.
With a coat of plates I don't think one would armour around the waist and leave the upper chest uncovered by plates, and plates on the upper torso don't have any negative impact on mobility since the upper chest moves as a rigid unit as opposed to the waist that needs to be able to twist and flex to some degree.
Oh, apart from these suggestions the drawing looks much better now in my opinion.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Thu 04 Nov, 2010 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Sander; I have chauses like these; they are riveted to a leather piece, which is in turn sewn to the padded breeches. This is however a "cheat" to simulate breeches on top of longer chauces. On the other hand, you do not need a double layer of mail on the thighs, so having chauses and hauberk overlap would be a bit redundandt.
Some more info here; http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9278
Walther; I like the legs, but I think the COP is a bit back-to-fantacy, at least with the groin plates. It't is a nice way to show bust, though. 
A single row of standing plates around the waist would be more plausible for the 13th c tech level.
Alternately, she could just have the surcote, with long arm openings, and ties on the top.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Walter S
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