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Christian Henry Tobler
Location: Oxford, CT Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 704
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Craig Shackleton
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 Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you 100% Christian. I do use solo drills for I.33 (and every other combat system I teach), and feel they are absolutely necessary. None of those drills come directly from the manual, nor from the book nor the video about the manual. Most of my solo drills are adaptations of solo drills from other sources, but made to fit I.33. They are necessary, but insufficient on their own, to learn the system.
Some paired drills are also essentially solo drills with a moving target. This is true of any system I've learned or taught as well. It might be possible to adapt some of those to be used with a pell or to the air, but it's really hard to replicate real timing and targeting without a partner. How do you learn to respond to a thrust by stepping offline and counterthrusting, without a partner initiating the thrust? You can practice the motion in the air, but you will never know if you are timing it correctly, nor will you feel the real resistance of your opponent's motion.
Solo drills are necessary, but by themselves insufficient, to learn swordplay. Some historical systems and/or masters gave us more specific solo drills than others, and some of those might be sufficient to create an exercise program composed entirely of solo drills. Some do not, and no one has to date published a modern exercise program based on solo drills for those systems that I know of.
I know you know that, I'm just again clarifying my position.
Ottawa Swordplay
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Hugh Knight
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| Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Shackleton wrote: | | Solo drills are necessary, but by themselves insufficient, to learn swordplay. Some historical systems and/or masters gave us more specific solo drills than others, and some of those might be sufficient to create an exercise program composed entirely of solo drills. Some do not, and no one has to date published a modern exercise program based on solo drills for those systems that I know of. |
I agree with you, Craig. I created solo drills for most of the forms I teach to help my beginning students familiarize themselves with the guards, simple attacks and footwork for the system. They also help with an intangible thing we might call "weapon handling." And, of course, they have a physical fitness component which goes to the OPs original point. But by themselves, these drills cannot teach you much about combat nor about any specific system. Even Lignitzer's plays of the buckler, for example, which are possibly intended to be done as solo exercises, don't mean anything until *after* you have learned them as partner exercises. I used to teach Lignitzer's buckler exercises solo *first*, before working them as partner drills. I discovered in doing this that my students weren't getting the sense of what they were doing from this, so I now I reverse it: I teach the individual plays contained within the exercises as partner drills first, and then go on to working them as longer exercises, and I don't teach them as solo drills at all any longer.
Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Christopher Treichel
Location: Metro D.C. Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven Reich wrote: | In my opinion, the best WMA solo stuff available for exercise would be the stuff for Spadone/Montante (i.e. the very large two-handed swords). The sword is quite big and will be a good workout--plus, it is historical as some of the period authors talk about it being good for fitness (e.g. Alfieri).
You can get a wooden trainer from Purpleheart Armoury here and Eric Myers and Steve Hick have made a translation of Figueyredo's material which is freely available here from the Oakeshott Institute.
Steve |
Just gave me an idea... In the JSA community we use these things called subarito for strength training... you could make one for training in WMA just as well... just go to your local hardware store and make yourself a training sword out of a 4x4 , cut to size and rasp down one end into a sword handle and there ya go.
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Hugh Knight
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| Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Christopher Treichel wrote: | | Just gave me an idea... In the JSA community we use these things called subarito for strength training... you could make one for training in WMA just as well... just go to your local hardware store and make yourself a training sword out of a 4x4 , cut to size and rasp down one end into a sword handle and there ya go. |
If we're just strictly talking about getting exercise, the subarito idea can be good, but it tends to cause people to overcut. I think the pell is even better exercise, for two reasons: First, it's an authentic medieval practice (see Christine de Pisan's retelling of Vegetius), and second, it eliminates overcutting. On the other hand, I have found through personal experience that pell work can cause serious injury if not done correctly. I used to practice cuts on a wooden post padded with carpet, and I ruined my shoulder and elbow doing so. The best pells are soft--punching bags and rubber tires work best, I think, with the latter being far more durable--and have a little freedom of movement (i.e., not rigidly held). My own personal pell is two car tires tied together in a figure-8 and suspended from the ceiling. This is the best pell I have ever used. I also think cuts should be practiced at something less than full power. After all, you rarely need to blast with full, maximum strength when you cut with a sword, and hitting too hard, over and over and over on the pell can cause injury even when the pell has give.
Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Chris Lampe
Location: United States Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the replies, they've given me a great deal more insight into some of these systems as they are practiced today.
What I envision is practicing basic footwork, ward/guard transitions, air cutting drills and pell work. I've got three high quality wooden wasters (including one longsword) that I can start with but if I find a system I really like I will upgrade to a blunt steel training sword.
I've looked over two of Steven Reich's Bolognese publications and they are the exact format I'm looking for and I think I'll work from those for now. Rennaissance swordsmanship (and swords) is an entirely new interest for me, although I must admit my childhood fascination with swords was mainly based on the rapiers of Zorro and the Three Musketeers.
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Lampe wrote: | | I've looked over two of Steven Reich's Bolognese publications and they are the exact format I'm looking for and I think I'll work from those for now. Rennaissance swordsmanship (and swords) is an entirely new interest for me, although I must admit my childhood fascination with swords was mainly based on the rapiers of Zorro and the Three Musketeers. |
Hey thanks! I'll try to keep the material coming at a somewhat regular schedule.
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 13 Oct, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Lampe wrote: | | I've looked over two of Steven Reich's Bolognese publications and they are the exact format I'm looking for and I think I'll work from those for now. |
The Bolognese material is a great route to go for solo work, and Steve's work with the material is top notch. Honestly, I'm not sure I could suggest a better route for purely solo use with HEMA material.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Chris Lampe
Location: United States Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Thu 14 Oct, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Steven Reich wrote: | | Chris Lampe wrote: | | I've looked over two of Steven Reich's Bolognese publications and they are the exact format I'm looking for and I think I'll work from those for now. Rennaissance swordsmanship (and swords) is an entirely new interest for me, although I must admit my childhood fascination with swords was mainly based on the rapiers of Zorro and the Three Musketeers. |
Hey thanks! I'll try to keep the material coming at a somewhat regular schedule.
Steve |
Steve,
Thank you for putting your materials online. I've mainly done a quick reading of your "Fundamentals" handout and it contains exactly what I'm looking for, a step-by-step guide to the basics that is clearly written and easy to follow. You did a great job on it. I've downloaded one or two other publications that I've looked at briefly but not read and I know there are numerous other downloads on the same site so there's a lot of material for me to use.
Another important aspect for me is access to high quality training swords of the correct type. Going into this I knew that I.33 and the longsword traditions were no problem with Albion and A&A offering trainers but now I see that A&A's training rapier hilt with a sidesword practice blade is well suited for the Bolognese style so that's another attraction for me.
Thanks again for making your work available for free!
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F. Carl Holz
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| Posted: Thu 14 Oct, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: |
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you may also consider Darksword armoury for a steel trainer. they come very highly recommended, and their price is somewhat less than what you will find at either Albion or A&A.
31. And there are some whom everyone should consider to be wise...
-Le Livre de Chevalerie, Geffroi Charny-
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu 14 Oct, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Chris Lampe wrote: | | Another important aspect for me is access to high quality training swords of the correct type. Going into this I knew that I.33 and the longsword traditions were no problem with Albion and A&A offering trainers but now I see that A&A's training rapier hilt with a sidesword practice blade is well suited for the Bolognese style so that's another attraction for me. |
As F. Carl Holz, Darkwood Armory is another option. However, if you get a sidesword from Darkwood, unless you have large hands, I would recommend that you get them to make the sword with a smaller handle than their normal size (i.e. shorter). The stock handles are a little long for normal-sized hands (they do this because that's what the market wants).
| Chris Lampe wrote: | | Thanks again for making your work available for free! |
Well, that's the best way to get it out there...
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Christian Henry Tobler
Location: Oxford, CT Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 704
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J. Nicolaysen
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| Posted: Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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This seems like a good old thread, but Steven Reich's website is defunct and so I can't access the articles mentioned. And I'm wondering if anyone would care to update some of the ideas and resources in the time since.
Thanks for your help
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Steven Reich wrote:
Chris Lampe wrote:
I've looked over two of Steven Reich's Bolognese publications and they are the exact format I'm looking for and I think I'll work from those for now. Rennaissance swordsmanship (and swords) is an entirely new interest for me, although I must admit my childhood fascination with swords was mainly based on the rapiers of Zorro and the Three Musketeers.
Hey thanks! I'll try to keep the material coming at a somewhat regular schedule.
Steve
Steve,
Thank you for putting your materials online. I've mainly done a quick reading of your "Fundamentals" handout and it contains exactly what I'm looking for, a step-by-step guide to the basics that is clearly written and easy to follow. You did a great job on it. I've downloaded one or two other publications that I've looked at briefly but not read and I know there are numerous other downloads on the same site so there's a lot of material for me to use.
Another important aspect for me is access to high quality training swords of the correct type. Going into this I knew that I.33 and the longsword traditions were no problem with Albion and A&A offering trainers but now I see that A&A's training rapier hilt with a sidesword practice blade is well suited for the Bolognese style so that's another attraction for me.
Thanks again for making your work available for free! |
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Tue 18 Apr, 2017 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Oddly enough, their old website is still up: http://nova-assalto.tauman.com/Handouts.html
You could also try looking for their Facebook page. The last time I remember reading anything about the two Steves (Hicks and Reich) was in an event they held together with other DC/NY/North Virginia clubs like the VAF, CKDF, and NYHFA.
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J. Nicolaysen
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| Posted: Wed 19 Apr, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Lafayette!
The link in Steven Reichs profile is different than the one you just kindly provided. Must have been a DNS change along the way or something.
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Ellthalion A
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| Posted: Thu 01 Feb, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: solo sword training |
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Hi, I'm also having trouble getting to Re-enactment Groups, they're quite far away from where I live so I was wondering do you have any suggestions on solo training for viking era sword and shield. e.g movements, exercises. etc.
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Fri 02 Feb, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: solo sword training |
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| Ellthalion A wrote: | | Hi, I'm also having trouble getting to Re-enactment Groups, they're quite far away from where I live so I was wondering do you have any suggestions on solo training for viking era sword and shield. e.g movements, exercises. etc. |
Watch the videos that Roland Warzecha has online: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dimicator . Then practice doing the different movements, over and over again. You want to develop the ability to deliver each motion naturally and intuitively, even under pressure. This takes lots of practice and devotion.
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