Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Yet another Scale Armour question Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Brawn Barber




Location: In the shop
Joined: 20 Nov 2008

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu 16 Sep, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Yet another Scale Armour question         Reply with quote

Yes, I heard the group of sighs, but this is fairly specific in nature and venue, and no Dan,...no Vikings

Are there any good references to Syrian, Sarmatian, or Egyptian scale armour which could have been composed exclusively of rawhide scales? I'm specifically looking for scale which exhibits a medial ridge. Yes, picky, I know.

Oriental Armour By H. Russell Robinson has a depiction of Egyptian scale from the 7th Century B.C. citing bronze, but I understand that rawhide was used in conjunction with these. Also he shows Syrian Scale from Nuzi, 5th Century B.C. but does not cite the material used. My problem with Robinson is that he states that the Egyptian scale armour depicted from the wall painting from the tomb of Kenamon, 1436-1411 B.C. had a circular neck protector which was made of leather which is of course, impossible to tell from a wall painting.

Any help would be appreciated.

"Haltet den Kopf unten and den Hammer am Schwingen!"

http://facebook.com/medieval.armour
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,636

PostPosted: Thu 16 Sep, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

An example was found by Carter in Tut's tomb. It is currently in the Cairo museum. They aren't sure whether it was made from rawhide or oil-cured leather. Thomas Hulit studied it the most and wrote it up in his PhD thesis. He made a replica of this and a bronze example and shot them with arrows.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,456

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan, don't the Nuzi tablets refer to a *lot* of rawhide scale armor? Something like 200 times as many as bronze, if I'm remembering correctly? Probably no references to midribs, though!

I always assumed the neckguard in that fresco was bronze, like the Dendra one. It *looks* like bronze, even has ridges and a flaired rim, I think.

Matthew


PS: Viking scales were always black leather. With studs. Ouch, stop hitting me!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Brawn Barber




Location: In the shop
Joined: 20 Nov 2008

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri 17 Sep, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan: Thanks for the reference. Do you know if there is a readily available image of Hulit's replica?

Matthew: Robinson's image of the Nuzi tablets does show a medial ridge, but then again a corroboration by another reference would be best.

In short, I'm looking for as complete a reconstruction of either, both or any of these.

"Haltet den Kopf unten and den Hammer am Schwingen!"

http://facebook.com/medieval.armour
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,636

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 4:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The entire PhD thesis can be downloaded here
http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?did=1&...hos.247577
View user's profile Send private message
Brawn Barber




Location: In the shop
Joined: 20 Nov 2008

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sat 18 Sep, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Dan, don't the Nuzi tablets refer to a *lot* of rawhide scale armor? Something like 200 times as many as bronze, if I'm remembering correctly? Probably no references to midribs, though!

I always assumed the neckguard in that fresco was bronze, like the Dendra one. It *looks* like bronze, even has ridges and a flaired rim, I think.

Matthew


PS: Viking scales were always black leather. With studs. Ouch, stop hitting me!


Thanks Matthew,

My impression of the neckguard was the same. I don't know how he came up with leather.

Dan: Perfect! Thanks...

,,,somehow I thought in this knowledge base there'd be more information forthcoming. Thank you both.

Cheers

"Haltet den Kopf unten and den Hammer am Schwingen!"

http://facebook.com/medieval.armour
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,636

PostPosted: Sun 19 Sep, 2010 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Dan, don't the Nuzi tablets refer to a *lot* of rawhide scale armor? Something like 200 times as many as bronze, if I'm remembering correctly? Probably no references to midribs, though!

Yep. There were no surviving rawhide scales found at Nuzi but the texts mention plenty of them . They also mention armour made of alternating rows of bronze and rawhide scales.

Quote:
I always assumed the neckguard in that fresco was bronze, like the Dendra one. It *looks* like bronze, even has ridges and a flaired rim, I think.

There is nothing to suggest that these neck guards were made of leather. All of the evidence points to bronze.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Yet another Scale Armour question
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum