[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Hi all...

In one of the later additions of Oakeshott's "The Archeology of Weapons" he has included pictures of three swords taken from the River Scheldt. A couple of things about these swords amazed me. First, the preservation of the hilts, especially for a river find. They appear to be made from bone or horn... it could be darkened ivory.

I also found the thinness of the grips extraordinary. Yet they rarely publish edge on views of the grip, so maybe their thinness is not that unusual.

I'll post the pics if you guys will tell me anything you know about them. I am especially interested in the Viking piece... Do you have any idea of its blade dimensions? Is it pattern welded, and if so what is the pattern? Do you know if the hilt furniture is made of bronze or brass? What is the grip made of and why is it so well preserved?

Thanks
ks

[Alexi Goranov]

Hi Kirk,

did these swords come our from the some find? They are dated same time apart, so I wonder what brought them at the same place? And plus the grips on all of them seem rather well preserved, as you noted.

The grip on the first (the viking) sword is very thin, and that appearance is even further exacerbated if the grip is compared to the thickness of the blade: they are almost identical. Could there have been another layer of covering on the grip (leather, or thread) that added thickness (and comfort) but got degraded?

Alexi

[Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom]

Hi kirk!
nice pictures, can they have use goat horn maybe,
easy to work whit and if i remember right, they are black in the "meat"

here can you see a scull of one, mutch to work whit on top on it
http://www.nrm.se/jourhavande_biolog/sida53-b35.html

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Hey Alexi...

Oakeshott does not say if they are from the same find location... I had supposed that they were from different locations. The Scheldt River flows from France all the way to the North Sea (I believe)... so there is a lot of river bottom to preserve swords. I have thought that bog conditions may have developed along the river banks and as the channel shifted these swords may have been incorporated into these bogs. If so that would explain the excellent preservation.

If the grip is made of wood there may have been a leather covering... If it is of horn, bone or ivory, it would seem more likely that their was no covering. Even with a covering it would not increase the thickness of the grip much. The Upper and especially the lower guard are also quite thin.

ks

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Hi Patrik...

It certainly looks like some kind of horn on all three swords... If I could find a archeological report maybe we could find out if so and what kind of horn. I thinks most everything turns dark in a bog find. Here is a thread that shows some darkened ivory for the Iilerup Adal bog find.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...ht=gladius

ks

[Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom]

well!
ivory, that can be like killer whale or an other whale or those big seals
they have big tooths

[Craig Johnson]

The thinness of the hilt is not out of the ordinary for these types of pieces. They were very light fast weapons, the thinness of the hilt is one thing many modern reproductions completely miss.

I have a couple sources that may have the specs and materials but I will have to wait till tomorrow to check.

Craig

[Zach Stambaugh]

don't you mean seal eaters?

sperm whale had big ivory teeth, but they were not reallly targeted until the end of the whaling era. rome seems to early for that. ...and out of range of any of the few orcas killed in the north.

though viking silverwork made it will south and east of the roman empire....

[Tom Carr]

I was reading some of the Viking stories that were written down and one of the most common fights between local groups
seemed to be over whale carcasses. Beached whales would be a large resource of meat, bone, ivory, sinew, oil for lamps, and more. The ivory may be of any type of whale. They need not have hunted it at all.
The scales for the grips, I would guess would be ivory as they would survive longer. Wood being a very porous material, would deteriorate quickly in most cases. Kirk is right about ivory turning black in bog deposits, and I would assume the same would hold true for river finds, being covered by mud and cut off from oxygen.

[Jay Barron]

Just FYI, the sword in the bottom pic is the sword that I have commissioned Kevin Cashen to make for me out of L6 steel! I am really excited to see what Kevin does with this piece. I'll be posting a review along with some pictures in, say, three years!!!

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

Hi Jay...

Sounds exciting... can't wait to see it!
Do you know if it is going to have a grip of horn or wood?
Also Will the blade be patterned in any way?

ks

[Jay Barron]

[Dave A.]

Those are great pictures,I would guess horn as the grip material. I'm wondering about the hilt of the early migration era sword. The upper and lower guards look to be made of metal sandwiched between organic material instead of the other way around . Does any one know about the blade of this one (type X or, multiple fullers?)

[Nate C.]

[Dave A.]

Now that I take another look I think your right it is five. I like it .It kinda looks like a transition from Behmer's type three to type four and if the dating is accurate (400 C.E.) then it would be about the right time frame.