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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: German Bastard Sword Original info sought         Reply with quote

I'm looking for any info (photos, specs, etc) on the original sword which served as the inspiration for A&A's German Bastard sword. I know the original featured a lenticular section blade with triple fullers, but none of the photos I have show the whole thing out of its scabbard. According to A&A's website, it appears on page 32 of Arms and Armour by Blackmore, but I can't seem to find a copy in my library system and hoped someone might be able to post a pic.
Thanks,
Dan
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe I have a copy, but as I recall it was only a line drawing... sending myself an email to look when I get home tonight...
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found this... you may already have it... will still look tonight...
As you can see the grip is considerably different and I do indeed see the start of the fullers.



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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Russ,
I have that photo (there's actually a hi-res version of it in Patrick Kelly's review of the A&A version) and a painting in a book by Frederick Wilkinson.....unfortunately the wilkinson one also only shows part of the blade.
I'd appreciate it if you'd post the line drawing....I'd really like to know the blade profile and length of fullers etc.
Thanks,
Dan
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've wanted to have A&A make a custom version of this for me with a lenticular blade with fullers instead of the diamond cross-section of their stock offering. I'd also have them do the grip treatment as the photo above.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I've wanted to have A&A make a custom version of this for me with a lenticular blade with fullers instead of the diamond cross-section of their stock offering. I'd also have them do the grip treatment as the photo above.


Now THAT sounds like a very cool project!

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Dickinson wrote:
Thanks, Russ,
I have that photo (there's actually a hi-res version of it in Patrick Kelly's review of the A&A version) and a painting in a book by Frederick Wilkinson.....unfortunately the wilkinson one also only shows part of the blade.
I'd appreciate it if you'd post the line drawing....I'd really like to know the blade profile and length of fullers etc.
Thanks,
Dan


Cool, I'll see what I can do. I may very well have kyped the picture I posted from Patrick's review, I don't recall it was just sitting here on my hard drive. Sorry about that... Blush

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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:


Cool, I'll see what I can do. I may very well have kyped the picture I posted from Patrick's review, I don't recall it was just sitting here on my hard drive. Sorry about that... Blush



No problem Russ,
I have tons of photos on my HD that I have no idea where I got them.....can be kinda confusing sometimes,
Dan
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out this pic from our Oakeshott article:



It's Ewart's uncle, Jeffrey Farnol. The sword he's holding looks an awful lot like the one in question.

Happy

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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Chad, that's definitely an angle of it I've never seen before.
Dan
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Chris Olsen




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

one of the shop guys at Arms and Armor made one very close to the picture in an effort to make one as close to the original as possible, It's been awhile since I saw it but I seem to recall it has the fullers, the pommel has a bit more detail to it, and the handle is a bit closer to the picture as well. (hint.. hint) maybe Craig could take a couple pictures of it and post them and we could all make comparisons.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, how many times can I be wrong in one day? Well apparently... all of them! I was thinking that I had the Blackmore book and that it was a line drawing. Wrong on both counts. It was Wilkinson's All-Color Guide and it was an illustration... and only a partial one at that! Blah... anyway here it is... it STILL doesn't show that elusive tip although it does indicate that the fullers run (by my humble estimate) just over half the blade length. If you get the boys at A&A to turn out one of these I wonder if I can get them to turn out two... Happy What a fantastic idea! I applaud your desire to research one of my favorite swords of all time!


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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well as a follow on, and since this is one of my favorite swords and since I didn't have the book in question I went ahead and ordered it. It only cost around 11.00 shipped from Amazon used. If no one else chimes in with the picture in question before it gets here I'll scan it and post it.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well wouldn't you know it. My copy of Blackmore's came in and... wait for it... the picture of the German Bastard of A&A fame... wait for it... IS THE EXACT SAME PHOTO THAT I FIRST POSTED!!! Eek! That must be where it originally came from. Go figure. Sad Sorry, I was really looking forward to seeing a photo of the whole sword too... I wonder where it now resides...
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 2:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
Well wouldn't you know it. My copy of Blackmore's came in and... wait for it... the picture of the German Bastard of A&A fame... wait for it... IS THE EXACT SAME PHOTO THAT I FIRST POSTED!!! Eek! That must be where it originally came from. Go figure. Sad Sorry, I was really looking forward to seeing a photo of the whole sword too... I wonder where it now resides...


Photos are released by their owners for publishing in various books. That's why you see the same photos of many items in book after book.

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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 6:29 am    Post subject: German Bastard Sword         Reply with quote

Hi Guys

These are the only two photo that I know of where the sword is pictured. I have tried to track down where this sword went but I have not found any clues as to where it resides today. I am sure at some point it will appear for sale or at auction but like so many you just have to wait for it to surface and hope you become aware of it.

My guess is it is still in a private collection in England but that is just a guess based on it being in Farnol's collection and Blackmore's book. I have not been able to confirm if Black more actually owned the sword at one time.

Farnol is an interesting fellow and was an author of adventure novels, see more here Jeffery Farnol Appreciation Society

Also a lot of his books are available as ebooks here is Beltane the Smith a rough and ready black smith classically educated by a hermit in the greenwood and his adventures of daring do, as he travels in to the wide world with no knowledge of cities or the ways of women. Eek!

This is writing of an earlier time and great for quotes Happy

Also one hopes the scabbard pictured in the Black more book may still be with the sword as it would be nice to have a look at that as well.

Best
Craig

PS another pic with some swords ( I would expect some of these are still in the Oakeshott Collection from the look of them)
Picture from the JFAS site



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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Drat! There goes that thought... I couldn't remember if I'd asked you about it before Craig, but I was going to ask again if you all had a picture. So if you don't, then is the blade of the GBS pretty much a matter of conjecture? If so nice conjecture, even after all this time and many swords later it's still one of my favorites! Happy

I had the exact same thoughts about the scabbard... for obvious reasons. Happy

One nice thing about this one, is that it has been identified as valuable, so you have to assume that is safe in a collection somewhere rather then being beaten about in someone's back yard. Shouldn't there be some way to track it from collection to collection? Auction records perhaps?

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Te Mana Dessoly





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PostPosted: Tue 30 Jul, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So I know I'm ten years late, but eh maybe someone's watching this thread!
So while browsing my sword gallery searching for a certain picture, I found an old pic I took 6-7 years ago, in the Morges military museum in Switzerland, and saw this model.
The idiot young me didn't think of taking a good picture of the references, but I'll post what I have ahaha
And the blade is visible!

https://imgur.com/a/dmJRuk2

https://imgur.com/hcP0pTZ

https://imgur.com/DQBB4FR
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Similar Swords         Reply with quote

Hi Mana

Thanks for the pics of the similar swords. There are quite a few in this style of hilt family in collections and exhibitions. We are still actively searching to find the current home for the Farnol sword we all know as the GBS (German Bastard Sword). Someday I hope she turns up and we can all learn more about the sword and its attributes. If anyone has clues but you are unable to share as a public post please consider let us know at The Oakeshott Institute or drop me an email cj@oakeshott.org. Part of our mission is to share knowledge on the artifacts, while providing security for collectors.

Best
Craig
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