[P. Cha]

[Julian Reynolds]

Not many European voices in this discussion. You try buying an Albion in Europe? Time to sell a kidney, I think!

I guess they've written off us consumers over the pond, particularly considering the number of excellent smiths over here who are considerably cheaper and hungry for the work.

On a more general note, I've tried commissioning custom pieces from some US makers - they are all (assuming they bother to respond) more expensive than European makers. Cost of living is usually used as the excuse, but here in the UK for instance, cost of living is way more expensive than in the States so that argument doesn't wash......

Over 15 years of collecting custom arms, I do get the distinct impression that we Europeans are seen as a bit of a cash cow for US makers - we rarely get a bargain.

Just my 2p worth.....

Julian

[Leo Todeschini]

Nathan Quarntillo wrote

[David Spencer]

Hi All
As a new member to these forums I would like to say thanks I currently own one Albion, a Svante. It was little bit of a gamble on my part as I have never viewed or held an Albion in person before. All i had to go on was other peoples opinions on forums such as these, all I can say is that I will never own another Svante, because I will never part with the one I have. If I only owned one sword it would be this one and i am very grateful that albion made it and that your opinions of them led me to buy it .

ps
will I buy from Albion again , Yes

Dave

[Nicholas Rettig]

If there is a price raise of ten percent, which is the number everyone seems to be using, then a sword that costs 1400 will now cost 1540 (1000 is now 1100, 800 is now 880, you can do arithmetic) dollars, is there anyone who can afford to spend 1400 on an item with absolutely no practical uses but can't spend 1540? Now if they increased prices by 50 percent I would get this debate but really is it that big a deal? If you want a cheaper sword and there are many beautiful cheaper ones out there, buy it, you want the best save up for an albion, I doubt this will move it out of anyone's price range.

[Luka Borscak]

I agree. When I spend $500 on a Del Tin, I wouldn't need that much more time to save another 100$, but there is nothing better than Del Tins and Hanwei Tinkers here in Croatia.

[Chad Arnow]

[Allan Senefelder]

[Randy W]

the quality over quantity has been beat to death, but I'd rather my 3 Albions than 10 lesser blades. I just wish I could decide on 3 blades, I don't know how many swords I've bought that I peddled soon after because I hadn't really researched what I wanted and merely bought the du jour deal beacuse 1. it was available, and 2. it was priced at a point I would pay. I see myself buying a Chevalier, but I can wait until I raise the cash or someone offers one for a price I'd pay or for a sword I'm looking to move

[Michael Edelson]

If Albion is raising prices, it's because their profit margins are shrinking. So in that situation, they have three choices. Fold up shop, raise their prices or cut back on the quality.

I think I can safely say none of us want them to close or cut back on the quality. So why complain?

Even if some people can no longer afford an Albion, they should be happy that they are still around, and still uncompromising on the their quality, so that at least some people can still get them, and then sell them to you in the classifieds for less.

I am proud to say I have never sold an Albion. I've traded a couple of them(for other Albions), but never sold one, and hopefully never will. Ccertainly not if I have any choice.

[Jonathan Blair]

[Chad Arnow]

[Felix R.]

[Julian Reynolds]

Allan,

As you say, trying to compete with developing nations is economic suicide. And a 20% VAT rate + customs duties pretty much kills any hopes of Brits ever purchasing a US-made product at a cost that you guys enjoy. It's truly frustrating, as there's plenty of US products I would spend my hard-earned pounds on, if there weren't so many disincentives. In practice, it forces us to look inward, and use that money to push European makers to produce products that are edging closer and closer to Albion standards but not cost. We're not there yet by a long chalk, but it's pretty much a given by the inevitable forces of supply and demand that it will eventually happen.

China, for instance, has made enormous advances compared to when I first started collecting 15 years ago. Please don't misinterpret that to read that they are anywhere near producing Albion standard products, but all that is needed is a few hundred dollars difference for someone to take a second look at a 'second best' product, especially considering that swords are not essential to anyone's needs except a tiny minority. Not everyone needs the 'best', especially if the sacrifices needed to get it become ever greater in these difficult times.

Look at what's happening in your own country - there are more and more custom manufacturers that are snapping at Albion's coat tails. As long as their prices remain high, so do the margins for other makers who come along to fill the space just behind Albion.

What's the answer? Don't ask me. Albion seems to have weighed up the pros and cons - shrinking customer base against increased revenue from those that do want to buy their products whatever the cost. They have an enviable reputation for quality, and that's money in the bank in a competitive world.

But the way the world's economies have evolved over the past 20 years should tell us all that you cannot ignore the developing world. Many, many, many manufacturing companies in the developed world have learned that to their cost (Britain used to be the 'Workshop of the World', now we have practically no manufacturing economy of our own).

It's sad but inevitable.

Julian

[Michael Edelson]

I think you guys are also forgetting that raising prices may increase their sales. There is a group of consumers that buy things just because they are expensive because of the perceived prestige.

I know a fairly wealthy guy once who bought a Range Rover and, when he had people working on his house, he complained that they should finish repaving his driveway quickly because he didn't like to park on the street (the driveway was rough dirt at this point). A friend of mine, who was the contractor doing the work, was confused. "But you have a Range Rover," he said. "It's a very capable off road vehicle. Why would you not park on the dirt?"

"It is?" asked the man. "I didn't know that." So my friend asked him why he bought it. He said, "Well I wanted the Porsche Cayenne, but there are two models, and the less expensive one only costs 60K, whereas the Range Rover has only one model (at the time there was no Sport) and starts at 80K (or was it 90?). So I got that because I didn't want people to think I was poor."

This is the kind of guy that, assuming he was into swords, would never buy an Albion until they crossed the 10K mark for their cheapest model. Then they would be appealing to an entirely different group of consumers, and with proper marketing, might even be more successful. There are many, many more such people than most of us realize.

Many people buy the Svante because it's a neat sword, but I think that many more buy it because of how much it costs. When you walk into a training hall with a 3.5K sword, people take notice, and some people thrive on that kind of attention.

[Chad Arnow]

Michael,
I haven't forgotten them. But I can almost gaurantee you that the group of people willing to buy swords just because they are expensive is smaller (probably much smaller) than the group of people who would like to buy Albions but can't afford them. And the buy-it-because-it's-expensive crowd in the sword world (and I've met some) generally have little knowledge or appreciation of that they own. I wouldn't try to build a sword business around that. If I did, I would skip the expensive R&D, ship the labor overseas, and maximize my profit.

If you put in the time, research, and money to make a quality product, why would you target an audience whose primary concern would be the item's price, not its features?

[Marcos Cantu]

ideally they could try and offset some of the loss of customers by expanding their line to include other time periods and regions. i would love to see albion tackle some falcatta's, xiphos, celtic/la tene, etc

[Zach Gordon]

Look at steel prices over the past 3 years..... Albions increasing their prices to make a larger profit.... not to make the same profit because of "rising costs"

[Chad Arnow]

[Michael Edelson]