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Michael MacLeod




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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jun, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This just means that instead of buying a brescia spadona as a convocation gift to myself I will just have to wait until I finish my graduate studies. That is unless the price goes up in another two years, in that case I might need a phd.
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John Gnaegy





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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 1:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Millions of people spend $800 - $2000 on a computer, which is about the same cost of an Albion. How can they afford that?

They think they need one (and they do), and they only have one at a time. Buy a new machine, use it about four years, get a replacement. The old computer sometimes gets handed down to kids (or parents) but usually gets added to the Archaic Technology Collection in the basement, between the typewriter and two cable modems from previous ISPs.

If you only have one sword, and it's an Albion, that's not an exorbitant cost. On the other hand if you think you need two, well maybe four...nah, six would be enough...that's the problem. But if you only have one at a time, that's more achievable. If you get tired of it, sell it and get another. You won't lose much when selling it because unlike computers, swords don't devaluate over time. You could leave your computer unopened in its box for four years and you'd still be lucky to get 25% back, but a four year old sword in excellent shape, you'll probably get 80-90% back.

You don't need a sword, and you don't technically need a computer. But realistically, everyone reading this needs at least one of each. So just limit yourself to one of each.
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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 1:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do think that if Albion wants to increase prices that their business should reflect their quality better with more appealing marketing. The customer should get more eye-candy. I am talking about the Albion website; its way behind the times. Even my 14 year old son asked, "Dad, if their swords are so expensive, why don't they have a better web designer?"

I'd suggest a revamp of the website to make it more appealing to customers in a more professional manner. High-resolution images, drop down menus for more efficient ordering, credit card processing, personal order tracking, account management, categorized product reviews, videos, so on and so forth - not scrolling down 15 pages of empty screen to read a single column of reviews or newsfeeds (they make scrolling frames for that).

There are many net-savvy people in the forums and the Albion customer base could offer help and easily result in a better picture of the product someone is going to invest $1000+ in. People are always visually driven when it comes to making purchases, so it makes me cringe when I go to the Albion website and see that some of their highest-priced swords have a mere couple low-resolution photos when they should have 360 degree zoomable views and much more information to entice the buyer. I think a customer should come away from the website feeling as if they have actually been in the room with the sword looking at it - and this can be accomplished easily though it would take time. This is even more important with the upcoming generation; they are visual-stimuli fanatics and they want to realistically see what they are going to get before taking the plunge.

Better marketing could easily result in higher volume which would negate the need to raise prices with such frequency.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
I do think that if Albion wants to increase prices that their business should reflect their quality better with more appealing marketing. The customer should get more eye-candy. I am talking about the Albion website; its way behind the times. Even my 14 year old son asked, "Dad, if their swords are so expensive, why don't they have a better web designer?"

I'd suggest a revamp of the website to make it more appealing to customers in a more professional manner. High-resolution images, drop down menus for more efficient ordering, credit card processing, personal order tracking, account management, categorized product reviews, videos, so on and so forth - not scrolling down 15 pages of empty screen to read a single column of reviews or newsfeeds (they make scrolling frames for that).

There are many net-savvy people in the forums and the Albion customer base could offer help and easily result in a better picture of the product someone is going to invest $1000+ in. People are always visually driven when it comes to making purchases, so it makes me cringe when I go to the Albion website and see that some of their highest-priced swords have a mere couple low-resolution photos when they should have 360 degree zoomable views and much more information to entice the buyer. I think a customer should come away from the website feeling as if they have actually been in the room with the sword looking at it - and this can be accomplished easily though it would take time. This is even more important with the upcoming generation; they are visual-stimuli fanatics and they want to realistically see what they are going to get before taking the plunge.

Better marketing could easily result in higher volume which would negate the need to raise prices with such frequency.

Particularly baffling when you look at the whole lot more attractive Albion Europe site...

"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 1:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Gnaegy wrote:
Millions of people spend $800 - $2000 on a computer, which is about the same cost of an Albion. How can they afford that?

I'm a freelance graphic designer. My computer is my livelihood (and tax deductible). Without a computer, I couldn't afford to eat, much less buy a sword.

"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 2:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:

I'd suggest a revamp of the website to make it more appealing to customers in a more professional manner. High-resolution images, drop down menus for more efficient ordering, credit card processing, personal order tracking, account management, categorized product reviews, videos, so on and so forth - not scrolling down 15 pages of empty screen to read a single column of reviews or newsfeeds (they make scrolling frames for that).


Even just having better quality images would help Albion a lot, I think. Not infrequently, when I'm showing other people images of an Albion, or wanting to look at one myself, I find myself going to the myArmoury review of a sword, rather than the Albion page. More than once, I've noticed subtle details on a sword from the myArmoury review that have brought a new appreciation for the weapon. I don't think most of the photos on Albion's page do justice to the quality of their craftsmanship.
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Albion Prices         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:

I really don't know what the solution is for them, but I have some ideas. Everybody has ideas, though, including Albion. The unfortunate reality is that attempting many of the ideas is also very expensive.


Much as been said already...increasing the price will ultimately alienate a new share of Albion's customer base...so I would tend to agree with the quote above. Other ways might be found beside this, and maybe not necessarily expensive ones. the squire line has remained unchanged for years...but more importantly, the moat sale looks to me as a huge success (I don't have access to Albion books, but judging by the level of anticipation and the time it takes for nice blades to vanish..). Making blades or hilt components available, or kits, might allow to save on workmanship and allow for customer to get their favourite Albion cheaper.

It is also true that Albions retain their value much better than other swords (I'm talking at the same level of quality). Brand recognition surely plays its part here...and when buying one you are sure to be able to resell at a minimum loss, while I've seen other makers of equal quality stick to the market place for month, even heavily discounted.

Albion offering is quiet unique, I would hate to see them struggle...but personally it's been a while since I switched to custom makers, that deliver equally great quality blades, for much much less...save for the moat (I didn't think twice before ordering half a dozen blade there, while I would never have allowed myself to purchase all those swords at their current retail prices).

Cheers,

Julien
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Bryce Felperin




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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
The thing people are not considering is that Albion was due for a sale, and this is it!!

But this is no sale you say?

In reality it is...and an effective viral advertising campaign to boot!! Just as people here are lamenting the increase, other people are telling each other the change is coming and they are rushing to get orders into Albion before the increase comes due. If this all holds true to form, we'll begin hearing some of those voices soon. In the end sales are all about bringing future sales forward. In this instance Albion has chosen to do that by warning of an increase instead of running a cut. Not the fist time they've used that strategy successfully.

Great thing is that when they work through their backlog in six months or so, and there will be a glut of new orders that come in, they can run a sale at today's current prices and fill their queue again. Cool Cool


The strategy, worked for me...I ordered one of the new type XVIIIC swords today. I figure that at the price (about a grand) it was worth it since NO ONE makes a sword of that type at Albion quality right now. I know without even having handled it that an Albion sword will be a great quality product. Can't say the same about a lot of other swords I have bought in the past from other makers, so I'll buy an Albion model sight unseen, and I won't do that for most other manufacturers.

So I'm already happy with my purchase for a sword that I haven't handled, for a model that isn't even released yet. Can't say I'd feel the same for many other products, from any other makers, in any other product category. Heck, I took more time trying on and figuring price points and value for my new sunglasses than I did for this Albion purchase! :-)
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P. Norton




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I too ordered a XVIIIc from Albion yesterday (the Alexandria Cool ). However, I was more concerned about placing my order while I could still get the discounted introductory price (it's available until June 30 for $950, then goes up to $1250). I don't know how the coming price increase will affect the two new XVIIICs. For example, will the Alexandria go up again from $1250 to even more, or not? Either way, my main concern was just to get the introductory price.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...alexandria


Logically, I look at it this way:


I want this sword and have decided to buy it.

It's available until June 30 for $950, then goes up to $1250.

I am faced with this: either (A) the price goes up again to even more than $1250 later this summer, or (B) it doesn't.

If A, then if I buy now I save money: some amount over $300, and likely almost twice that.
If B, then if I buy now I save $300.

Either way, I'm buying it now.


So, Albion's coming price increase *did* influence my decision to buy now in the indirect/conditional way described above, but the introductory price was my *main* motivation. Given my current knowledge, the price increase affecting this model is an "if," while the introductory price expiring is an "it is."


Wait a second... June 30 is today! OMG! Did you order your Albion XVIIIc yet? Razz
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Bryce Felperin




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

P. Norton wrote:
I too ordered a XVIIIc from Albion yesterday (the Alexandria Cool ). However, I was more concerned about placing my order while I could still get the discounted introductory price (it's available until June 30 for $950, then goes up to $1250). I don't know how the coming price increase will affect the two new XVIIICs. For example, will the Alexandria go up again from $1250 to even more, or not? Either way, my main concern was just to get the introductory price.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...alexandria


Logically, I look at it this way:


I want this sword and have decided to buy it.

It's available until June 30 for $950, then goes up to $1250.

I am faced with this: either (A) the price goes up again to even more than $1250 later this summer, or (B) it doesn't.

If A, then if I buy now I save money: some amount over $300, and likely almost twice that.
If B, then if I buy now I save $300.

Either way, I'm buying it now.


So, Albion's coming price increase *did* influence my decision to buy now in the indirect/conditional way described above, but the introductory price was my *main* motivation. Given my current knowledge, the price increase affecting this model is an "if," while the introductory price expiring is an "it is."


Wait a second... June 30 is today! OMG! Did you order your Albion XVIIIc yet? Razz


My thought processes exactly! I got the other one, the Il Principe. We'll have to compare notes once they arrive for both of us. ;-) I figured for the money it's one of the best buys you can get for a new Albion. Tomorrow it will become a great buy since the value of them new will be $300 over what the price today is. So already I figure I've made a good money investment. ;-)

Same can be said of any Albion purchase you make before their prices go up. Sure resale won't be the same as their price from Albion, but if you buy now before the price increase I'm pretty sure that if you sell your new Albion at a later date on the "used" market you'll make what you paid for it or more in the future. So in a weird way, I look on this as a possible investment. :-)
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yup. Pre-ordered my Principe yesterday. This will be my second Albion purchased on the basis of one of Peter's sketches (the first being the Dane, which I nabbed at the introductory price so long ago that I'd almost forgotten I'd ordered it when Mike emailed me asking for my grip color preference). An earlier point stands; what other product would I do that with? A book or video game, perhaps, but those don't require four digits. The thing doesn't even exist yet and I've plunked down a grand simply because I trust that it will be awesome. With anything else I'd wait and see and perhaps find a way to study it in person before committing money.

Anyway, I've got a few months of sketchgazing before this newest beast is brought to life. I'm not worried about it at all, though.

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 9:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OK they got me too. I am going on a payment plan for a an Oakeshott or Vigil. I haven't decided. . . Hmmm. . . .

I can afford just a few bucks a month. Actually I can more afford this than pay for a cheaper $300 sword all at once.
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P. Norton




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Barris wrote:
[...] The thing doesn't even exist yet and I've plunked down a grand simply because I trust that it will be awesome. [...]


Same here. I'm willing to spend $950 on an Albion that doesn't even exist yet, if it's the the style of sword I like. I'll do this because Albion's earned my trust.

The first few years that I tried to collect swords -- and I really mean *tried*, because it didn't go well -- I avoided Albion due to their high prices, buying from other makers instead (whom I won't name). With these other makers the swords were never quite right, often service was bad, and communication was sporadic or non-existent. This was a source of real frustration for me and it went on for *years.* I really wanted to collect swords but was never satisfied with any of the ones I'd bought so far. I waited ridiculous amounts of time for some of my purchases, only to be disappointed when they finally arrived. Once, after I sent an email asking to return a sword I had just received and didn't like, I even had someone who worked for the maker call me up the next day and try to *lecture* me about how great the sword was, brag about how much he knew about swords, and repeatedly imply that I was ignorant about them since I'd understand just how wonderful their product was otherwise! WTF?! Amazing... What a ridiculous, disappointing experience.

After all the frustration, I finally took the plunge and bought from Albion for the first time, about a year and a half ago. I've always been fascinated by European swords and still wanted to collect badly, and after my previous experiences I didn't care anymore about the high price tag -- I just wanted some nice historically-accurate swords. If I needed to spend a lot of money to make that happen, fine.

I'm glad I took the plunge. With Albion communication was excellent, customer service was high-quality and professional, and my sword was finished and shipped to me in less than a week. And when I got it, I was overjoyed at how nice it was. After all my previous frustrations, for the first time I finally had a sword that looked and felt *right* to me. The people at Albion were a pleasure to deal with, the purchase went smoothly, and I got my sword fast, too. It was a Poitiers and I still have it, still love it, and am not planning on parting with it. Not ever.

Since then, by slowly buying Albions, I've finally been able to build a small collection that I'm actually satisfied with. Once there was a minor problem with one of my Albion purchases, but they went out of their way to promptly make it right, impressing the hell out of me in the process (I still have that sword, too). I'm so relieved that I finally have a sword collection I really love, and am glad I didn't just give up altogether on this hobby when it wasn't working out.

Albion's prices are quite high, but -- all the frustration, time, and energy I wasted trying to pursue collecting before finally deciding to just spend the money and buy their swords was actually far *more* costly, at least it was for me.

So yeah, I'll spend almost a thousand dollars for an Alexandria, even if it doesn't exist yet.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting items I saw in another forum's thread about the price change was a note that perhaps not all of the Albion linup is distictly different from some of the analogues out there. Perhaps only certain highly distinctive parts of the linup differentiate themselves. Guess it might be interesting to see what happens to the lineup if people decide that Albion is the only option for some designs, but with others, not so much.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Interesting items I saw in another forum's thread about the price change was a note that perhaps not all of the Albion linup is distictly different from some of the analogues out there. Perhaps only certain highly distinctive parts of the linup differentiate themselves. Guess it might be interesting to see what happens to the lineup if people decide that Albion is the only option for some designs, but with others, not so much.


So which Albion models are the ones that are not distinctly different? I wonder if the person that made that statement was basing it on real knowledge of how Albion swords are made?
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Reeve was specifically mentioned as the sword he found an anlogue for, and I think that the person making the post might have a point. I've handled the Reeve some time ago, not the analogue mentioned in that thread, but it was coming from somebody who has purchased Albions and is off the badwagon due to cost. He certainly understands what goes into them given that he has bought and sold them before on this forum.

And, in all honesty, I have to admit I'm in the process of making the exact same impulse buy for the exact same cost reasons.

To my eye, the analogue to the Reeve is more than adequate. Although I can see some differences, the $350 I saved (at least) is worth far more to me so far. Don't have the analogue in hand yet so I don't know for certain that it is good enough, but I will have it soon enough, and I will know both swords, so I guess I'll see.

Of course none of this holds true when I look at a Regent, Earl, Munich, Bugundian, Oakeschott, Sherriff, Yoeman, Sovereign, Count, Landgraf, Hauptmann or others, especially those with complex blades and components. No substitutes for them that I'm aware of other than custom and it can be a reach even then. But some of the simpler blade forms, and there are a few, perhaps not so much seperation.

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Thom R.




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:

So which Albion models are the ones that are not distinctly different? I wonder if the person that made that statement was basing it on real knowledge of how Albion swords are made?


It depends on whether you are referring to blades, swords, or hilt styles.

I think there are a fair number of options for type XV and XVa swords out there of equal quality to Albion. Type XIIIa ditto, some of the Type XII and X as well. But there are certainly many many Albion swords that have no equal in the production market.

In another recent thread here PJ made mention of an Albion sword that in nearly all aspects, is really a Museum Line sword yet because of a few small details, is part of the NG line. There are several of those "almost Museum Line" swords in the NG line, and personally I believe those swords are among the best values in the Albion lineup. The Vigil and Oakeshott come to mind................ as well as the new Alexandria.
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd put the Munich there, too, since the blade is such a close copy of the Bayerisches XVIIIb.
Pax,
Sam Barris

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Scott S.




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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I personally wish Albion would expand their Squire Line for us "sub-$500 guys." Seems like they'd have a whole new market opened up to them once there was some real variety. And I really don't think it'd turn off anyone but the most snobbish "I buy stuff because it's expensive and/or exclusive" customers. (I'm assuming of course that it would be profitable to do so, and I'm sure they've considered it, but maybe they just need to hear more requests.)

And yeah, do the aforementioned site upgrade with much better pictures, but also make more use of all that research and add some history about each sword as well! I'd love to read more in-depth info for each sword about the provenance, research, offhand observations and thoughts from Peter etc.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 01 Jul, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott S. wrote:
I personally wish Albion would expand their Squire Line for us "sub-$500 guys."


I agree. More Squire stuff would be a good thing for many. Easier said than done of course.

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