[Stephen Curtin]

Is it me or is the above sword with the gold plated grip very reminiscent of the sword of Childeric I, possible connection perhaps?

[Myles Hildebrand]

Childeric - now that would be a beautiful sword to replicate

[Paul Hansen]

Although some authors think that most cloissonée work comes from Byzantine workshops, I have the idea that the use of it in Germanic swords has been developed under Hunnish influence.

Nevertheless, the Childeric sword is of a distinctly different type, with would have had a broad, pattern welded blade. Also the shape of the hilt is completely different and in line with other Germanic gold-hilted swords of the same period (e.g. Blucina), not with these Hunnish swords.

Here are some pictures of the Childeric sword (although I think that at least the lower scabbard fitting belongs with a sax rather than a spatha) and of the two Hunnish swords found at Pannonhalma.

[Paul Hansen]

Success!?!

See at the bottom of this page a Chinese jian that is very like the Hunnish swords, although still not like the sword in the first post:
http://www.youngmuseum.com/the_richard_nable_collection.htm

Direct link: http://www.youngmuseum.com/hanironsword%20One.jpg

[Henrik Zoltan Toth]

I got some photos of ringswords from the 6th century, used in Korea and Japan. The same weapon was carried by the awars from Mongolia into Europe. So the chinese hunnic (xiunghu?)-chinese vice-versa influences wouldn't be a big surprice. :-)

Best regards:

Zoltán

[Roger Hooper]

Concerning the sword placement on Henrik's photo of the burial drawings -

Except for very short swords like gladii, I'm used to seeing swords carried on the left for easier drawing.. Yet these burials have the sword placed on the right side of the body. I wonder why?

Maybe both those men were left handed

[Andrew W]

Or perhaps the blades were simply placed on that side when they were buried, and not worn there in life.

[Roger Hooper]

[Till J. Lodemann]

I guess the drawing on the right is easy.
The focus of the scan shows not the former owner of the sword, but his supposed wife (the two bracelets, the fibulae and the scissors are a clue here) which was buried with him and lies on top the sword which is on the left hip of the man to her right whose hand she appears to hold.


The left drawing is a bit less clear. It could be either a case of a deforming of the grave and thus dislocation of the gravegoods some time after the burial, maybe due to decay and resulting collapse of the coffin or gravechamber. You can notice the bulk of the gravegoods laying on the body's right side. Also the skeleton appears to be oriented to the right side with his spine awkwardly bowing to this direction.

Or it could be a woman to, which would be indicated by the three fibulae which are shown on the drawing, these are generally part of the female dress. In this case, the male burying to her right side would miss in the drawing, which might well be the case. It is a relatively old excavation and the archeologists where maybe not as careful about the surrounding bones as about the precious gravegoods a sad and common feature of older style excavations.
Or it could be a case of more ancient grave robbing which as not been documented by the excavators. Anyway the left grave would then be a double burial like the first one.

Either hypothesis can not be cleared without the description and detailed drawings of the gravegoods of the burial.

Or it could be a left handed person

[Paul Hansen]

[Roger Hooper]

[Paul Hansen]

According to the text accompanying picture 30/2, the long sword was attached to the belt of the person on the right, which was in the text described as probably a woman, or at least a person who looked and dressed like a woman.

Since it's an Alan grave, perhaps this could be a continuation of the Sarmatian female warrior practice?

Interestingly, at the same time, the Historical Museum in Speyer (Germany) is holding an exhibition on the Amazons...

[Stephen Curtin]

Looking back over this thread I noticed that some of these swords have short thick guards while others have long thin guards. Do you think that this was a development over time or were these two types contempory. Also why have so few pommels survived were they made of organic material? And finally, we can see from Henrik's drawings what type of pommels were used, but were there other types of pommel used, in the same way that different styles of guard were used.

[Paul Hansen]

[Sean Flynt]

On the grave figure at left in that scan--notice the buckle over the pelvis. It's pretty well aligned with the scabbard.

[Till J. Lodemann]

Paul, I think so, too.
Looking in the catalogue of the Speyer exhibition, I found two further examples of hunnic swords with largely intact hilts.
Especially the long hilted one shows the construction without a pommel nicely, and besides, its a nice sword

[Stephen Curtin]

[Henrik Zoltan Toth]

Maybe the position of the weapons depends on the social/political/military position of the person. There is a theory about the nomad hungarian graves: the grave itself could had mean the underwolrld, the opposite side, something like a mirror. For example the sabre came to the right side instead the left.

A lot of hunnic swords got a cord with a semi-precious stone-bottom on the end. The user pressed this on his hand (joint).

Regards:

Zoltán

[Paul Hansen]

[Henrik Zoltan Toth]

I have some pics about these kind of long swords... parthian and chinese. I'll post them on saturday.

Zoltán