Newbie Question about Museum replicas limited -- myArmoury.com

Chuck Wyatt

Hello all,
I'm still very new at sword/weapon collecting; I noticed a large amount of distaste for Museum Replicas.
Is this due to historical accuracy, craftsmanship and construction that you get for the price or bad business practices?
Thanks for your help
chuck Confused

Allen Reed

Alexi Goranov · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Chuck,

I MRL is not terribly bad, at lest as compared to some other makers like Valiant Armoury (ProCut). The fact that we even take the time to talk about it means it is worth considering in at lest in some cases.

Its products are at the low spectrum of USABLE quality, but they are fairly cheep as well. So the cost/quality ratio is pretty good. By usable I mean that you might actually cut (appropriate targets) with them without breaking the sword. Or so I have heard

If you read the reviews on this site of MRL products, they pretty much all agree that the products are worth the money.

So if your budget is around $300, it is a company worth considering. From what I hear, their products have gotten better within the last few years. Unfortunately they discontinued some pieces that I was interested in.

Their business conduct seems OK, so that is not the reason why people might show disdain for MRL. They are fast to reply to questions and also have a pretty liberal return policy.

Hope that helps,

Alexi

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

William Goodwin · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 10:15 am Post subject:

Yes, do look at the reviews of some of the MRL stuff on this site. There have been a few "sleepers" to come out of MRL worth checking out.

William
aka Bill

Tom Wegener · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 10:17 am Post subject:

Chuck ,

As one who is on a limited budget the few items I do own are by MRL . So far I am happy with the items and I do recommend them for those who can not afford something like a Atrim or Albion sword . One thing that can be said is that they ( MRL ) do offer is a selection of other items besides swords , ie axes , pole arms , large daggers , ect ect .

Even if I do recommend MRL I would also recommend looking around the net for a better deal . The links on this site are a GREAT source for finding alternatives .

Good luck and happy hunting for what you will find a fine past time .

Chuck Wyatt · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 10:22 am Post subject:

Thanks for the quick responses. You all have been very helpful.
Since where some what on the subject, can anybody recommend an armoury for usable swords in the $300. range?
chuck

William Goodwin · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 11:27 am Post subject:

Armour Class in Scotland are a fine outfit.

William
aka Bill

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:

When comparing responses to this question, I think you'd be well advised to give more weight to opinions based on recent personal experience with MRL/Windlass Steelcrafts. Many of the complaints I've heard begin something like this-"Well, I bought a sword from MRL in 1998 and it was an anchor...." and end "...so I'll never buy anything else from MRL." By most informed accounts, MRL has improved on all levels. That doesn't mean all their replicas are good (historically plausible in design and vital statistics). It really depends on what you want. I can personally recommend their Hanger, Falchion and Scottish Backsword. I've heard from knowledgeable sources that the Arbedo sword, Tuck and Badelaire also are good buys. Bottom Line: Do enough research to be able to compare originals to the MRL replicas. That'll be a pretty good guide to the good, bad and ugly in their catalog. Assume the blade will be good quality and well finished. Assume, also, that you'll be happier with your purchase if you can handle a bit of do-it-yourself upgrade (grip wrap, epoxying hilt furniture, etc.) If you CAN handle such work, MRL pieces can be outstanding bargains. Quality control has always been the biggest complaint-one hilt may be perfectly tight, another may not, scabbard may or may not fit well, etc. I have yet to handle an MRL replica that wasn't tight and well-fit, though, and I've handled around 10 of them. Ahistorical design/materials/vital stats are the more serious issues, but that's why you do your homework. You'll find lots of MRL upgrade work represented in the myArmour.com forums. My review of their falchion is in the review pages here, and my review of the Hanger is here:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1278

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Matthew Kelty · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject:

You've pretty much heard the spectrum of opinions, so I'll not repeat what everyone else has said, but here are a couple other points of concern with their stuff.

1) Hecho en India.
While Windlass (the name of the Indian Export and Mfg. company doing the majority MRL's work) is definitely several notches above most companies (Hind Handicraft, cheap, and CHEAP), there is still a certain amount of Quality Control that is lacking, as well as on the less expensive pieces, the steel is essentially of suspect origins. When you dig into the descriptions of the different pieces, you can tell they certainly put more time and effort into certain pieces than others, and it shows. The quality seems to vary from Style to Style, i.e. the 'Brass Hilted Rapier' is a such a mass consumed commodity, they can fabricate it from a salvaged Liberty Ship, sell it for cheap, and the QC is minimal. Get into the bigger, or more historically significant pieces, and the QC seems to reflect the higher price tag.

2) Museum Spec's
This is something they seem to have fixed about 10 years ago, but in their infancy, they worked so hard to make things in identical dimension to Museum Pieces, that they achieved it perfectly, and your hand knew it... Happy

Their basket hilts were uncomfortable around the hand, as our bodies are about 3-5% larger than our Renaissance counterparts. Also, many of the blades were ground to a roughly correct shape, but a poorly treated stock-ground or poorly forged blade tends to be a little heavier than a properly forged blade (extra mass to compensate for the lack of a good alloy/hardening/temper).

Unfortunately, for a while the pendulum swung the other way, with Baskets and Swept hilts of a ridiculous size. Some of these are still out there, and while they look fine in a picture, once you pick it up and notice the 1 1/2" of extra space around each side of your hand, you feel a little ridiculous swinging around this hamster cage.

Overall, they tend to have a decent tang that is unlikely to break, a fairly good temper and flexibility, and are definitely worth the extra dollars over the confusingly similar Indian crap that is out there (worst site I've ever found: http://www.budkww.com)

The way I look at it now (after wasting a few dollars of my own... Happy

, You can spend $100.00 for crap, $225.00 for the same looking, but better made stuff (MRL is in this boat), or $400.00 for a well crafted sword.

A+A (http://www.arms-n-armor.com): Spot on in the historical pieces. Not personally familiar with their handling or durability, but most people seem happy with their stuff.

Lutel (http://www.lutel.cz): Ditto

Darkwood Armoury (http://www.darkwoodarmory.com): Makes custom hilts fitted on Del Tin blades. Fairly decent cut and weld work (still looks a little bandsaw-ish, but only from close up), very good finishes, a nice middle ground weapon.

Albion and Angus Trim: Seem to have a solid reputation for performing well, not much offered other than their Cruciform styles, and I'm personally more rooted in 16th century styles. I hope their repetoire expands in time, I wouldn't mind picking up a double ring hilt hand-and-a-half, 3 pound 'man-cleaver' from these folks some day (hint hint... Happy

My personal favorite though, Jim 'Atar' Hrisoulas (http://www.atar.com/)
These are all hand forged, and they are exsquisite to behold. His hilt forms are all fairly standard cruciform styles, and once you own one, you'll spot any other Atar in a second from just the Pommel... Happy

Not as much a stickler for Museum Reproduction hilts, but his steelwork (especially the Pattern Welding) is phenomenal:

http://www.atar.com/index.php?module=pagemast...sition=4:4

http://www.atar.com/index.php?module=photoalb...tion=14:14

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject:

Hello Chuck, and welcome to myArmoury.

You've already been given some good advice in this thread so far. I would also recommend that you take a look at the reviews in our Reviews section. There are several MRL swords featured there.

If your working with a budget in the $300 range your choices are limited, many of the makers mentioned in this thread fall outside of that range unfortunately. (Focus on the question asked guys.)

$300-$400 dollars should get you a usable facsimile of a sword, but nothing to brag about most of the time. Quality isn't cheap but that kind of money should get you something that you can get your feet wet with.

In this range MRL is a fair choice. Their quality tends to vary from type to type, and piece to piece. You may get a real stinker or you may get something that isn't half bad. They do have a very good return policy so if you aren't happy with your purchase you can get your money back. Please read my review of the Sword of Albrecht II, as made by MRL. This review goes into some of the recent improvements seen in MRLs product. They most assuredly have *not* achieved perfection in replicating museum specifications. Most, if not all of their swords are copied from a photograph. Replicating a sword from a two-dimensional picture is a flawed process that can only take you so far. They are generally worth what you pay for them though.

Swords made by Hanwei(Paul Chen), as marketed by CASI, fall into this category as well. These swords are better in fit and finish than MRL, and their scabbards tend to be an improvement as well. Heat treatment tends to be a bit spotty with these, but most of the ones I've handled have been a decent buy for the money. I did a review of a Hanwei sword of european hand and a half style recently that wasn't a bad buy for the money (see Reviews section).

Del Tin has several models that may fit into your budget. These are sold through vendors such as Albion Armorers (www.albionarmorers.com), and Art Elwell (www.a-work-of-art.net). Del Tin was long considered to be the base line for functional swords, and they are still a good choice in this price range. We also have several Del Tins in our Reviews section.

Chuck Perino · Posted: Tue 20 Jul, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject:

You also may want to keep an eye out for used arms and armour, albion, del tin, atrim and the other well thought of brands put up for sale by forumites here.

I bought a used albion sword off this cop from Kansas one time Razz

...it was (and still is) a great sword that I got for a sweet price. It was in spotless shape when I got it.

Good luck!

Andrew Zander · Posted: Wed 21 Jul, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject:

And to add to the more budget friendly sword pool, check out the new Squire line from Albion Armorers:

http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/albion/squire.htm

Their customer service is the best i've experienced (from any type of company, any where) and their products are... well, the reviews speak for themselves.

Andrew Zander

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 21 Jul, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject:

Chuck,

One company that I forgot to mention is Lutel, which is based in the Czech Republic.

They offer a wide range of weapons at very affordable prices, especially when you consider that a scabbard and belt are included. They should be within your budget. I've owned a couple of Lutel Axes that are still listed on my collection page. I was happy with the quality of both pieces.

Their products are carried by Art Elwell here in the US.

www.lutel.cz

William Goodwin · Posted: Thu 22 Jul, 2004 2:44 am Post subject:

One other maker you may want to take a look at is Vladimir Cervenka in Czech.

Have seen photo's and reviews of his work here & other site's and he's seems to do great work at a great price.
He can be found throught the link-finds here as well.

Back to the MRL ? I just recently bought my first MRL from Nathan (Mr. myArmoury), the same one he did a review on here. Must agree with his finds of this sword (Scottish back-sword). I'm very pleased with it and other folks I've shown and let handle it, have been great suprised with, E.B. Erickson (Eljay), being one of those who were fond of it. I'm taking a
close look at the Falchion, the review by Sean, has sparked a interest in it.

But, by all means, take a little time, and do as much research as you can, to deicide what's right for ya'. A little extra time can mean a great deal from pure joy to utter agony.

William
aka Bill

Joe Fults · Posted: Fri 23 Jul, 2004 9:52 am Post subject:

Lots of good answers already.

I'm just going to add that MRL is a perfectly valid starting point. Many of the criticisms leveled at them come from people who have moved up the quality chain and become a bit more jaded with everything that is entry level. Much of you pleasure or displeasure with them will hinge on the size of your wallet and what you compare them against.

David Edelen

Hello Chuck,
Personally I like MRL. They are indeed good for the money. I am among the vast amount of people that just can't afford a sword that costs more than two or three hundred dollars. Even the lower spectrum I can only afford once or twice a year if needs be.

Anyway, I have these things from MRL: Sticklestadt Viking Sword, River Scheldt Viking Sword, Viking Helmet, Two Viking "Long Spear" Heads, one rounded spear-butt spike for them, and one Greek spear Butt-Spike that goes with their massive Greek Spear head. I have also ordered a couple of tunics from them. while not handsewn linien or wool like originals, they are still well made attactive tunics. I am well satisfied with all of them. I feel that for the money they are well made. The swords are quite nice and unflawed, light, quick and fast, flex very well, etc. (see my complete read reviews of them over at swordforum.com), the Viking helmet is made of 18 gauge steel and is heave and very well made. I would trust it to an axe blow., the spear heads and butt spikes are all well made, solid, and the finish and looks are quite nice to me. The only thing I have ever cut was a Yucca plant with my Stickelstadt sword. The sword comes with a semi-sharp blade, or in other words it is not fully sharpened, but it would take only a few moments to put a very sharp edge to it. Anyway with a back handed strike I hit the stalk, which was about five inches thick, about midway of the stalk. The dull blade went through the downswept yucca leaves or spikes, then though 80 or 90% of the stalk. I did not try anymore because when I made that first strike I had to run like hell as wasps flew all over the place, not to mention at me. I ran across the yard waving that sword running from the wasps, who where evey where. There must have been a nest under there somewhere.

To put a long story short, like the other guys said MRL things are good for the money. And as long as you not planning on cuttin logs with them they are ok to me. Also, I have been to their place in Conyers, Ga. They have a pretty neat place and a nive showroom. The people that work there are just nice as can be. Totally friendly and totally committed to taking care of the customer. Anything you show them from the catolog they will go get it for you to look at. I enjoy going there just to look at stuff. Forgive the long post but I just thought I would give you take on them.
Take care,
Dave

Aaron Justice · Posted: Wed 28 Jul, 2004 7:51 am Post subject:

Kirk Lee Spencer