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Mart Shearer
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 Posted: Thu 02 Jul, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| David Eason wrote: | | Is there any historical evidence of people wearing layers of different types of armour? |
Yes. Both literary and pictorial.
The Norwegian Konungs-skuggsjá (King's Mirror, Speculum Regale) from c.1250 calls for a soft gambeson (blautan panzara), then good breastplates (góðar brjóstbjörg), then good hauberk (góðar brynju), and finally another good sleeveless gambeson (góðan panzara) for a total of four layers on the body, two of fabric, one mail, and one plate.
Heinrich von Türlin's Diu Crône from about 1220-1230 also calls for multiple layers. First a gambeson (wambeis) and gorget (collier), then a hauberk (halsperc), mail coif (coifen stricten), a plate over the breast (vür die brust ein blat), and finally another gambeson (wambeis) or a silk surcoat (wâfenroc sîdîn). So we see two layers over the neck (three if the gambeson has an attached collar) with the collar and coif (and another if you consider the helm), and four layers over the breast.
Pictorial examples include the crossbowman in the Manesse Codex, CPg. 848, fo.229v, 1305-1340, where we see a gambeson, mail hauberk, pteruges and a scale armor.
Another example from the mid-14th century Romance of Alexander, MS Bodley 264, fo.54v shows layers similar to those shown in many contemporary effigies with gambeson (aketon), mail hauberk, pair of plates, and surcoat.
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ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Greg Ballantyne
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| Posted: Thu 02 Jul, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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As an adolescent years ago, I did a silk vs. arrow test.....shot a hole right through my mother's skirt & got in trouble for it.... at least she was not wearing it..... at the time concluded there was nothing to the old wives tale - the skirt was hanging from a clothesline e like it was drying from the wash
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Wed 08 Jul, 2015 2:25 am Post subject: |
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That skirt was rendered useless as a test subject long before it reached your mother's clothesline. Silk loses tensile strength whenever it is exposed to moisture, sunlight, or impact. Mechanical spinning causes deterioration. Dying causes deterioration. Mechanical weaving causes deterioration. The act of wearing it in the sun causes deterioration. Tossing it in the washing machine causes deterioration. Hanging it in the sun causes deterioration.
The only reasonable test material would be raw silk that has been spun and woven by hand and not dyed.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Wed 08 Jul, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Yet we do have records of aketons and gambesons being covered with silk, where it is exposed to sun and rain and possibly some hand laundering. Whether the silk added, or was expected to add, any protective value or was merely applied for decorative puposes is not usually noted.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Greg Ballantyne
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| Posted: Sun 19 Jul, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Dan Howard wrote: | That skirt was rendered useless as a test subject long before it reached your mother's clothesline. Silk loses tensile strength whenever it is exposed to moisture, sunlight, or impact. Mechanical spinning causes deterioration. Dying causes deterioration. Mechanical weaving causes deterioration. The act of wearing it in the sun causes deterioration. Tossing it in the washing machine causes deterioration. Hanging it in the sun causes deterioration.
The only reasonable test material would be raw silk that has been spun and woven by hand and not dyed. |
Must make damned delicate armour
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William P
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| Posted: Sun 19 Jul, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Mart Shearer wrote: | | Yet we do have records of aketons and gambesons being covered with silk, where it is exposed to sun and rain and possibly some hand laundering. Whether the silk added, or was expected to add, any protective value or was merely applied for decorative puposes is not usually noted. |
it was also emplyed in the infantry soft armour of the medieval byzantines theyre mentioned at least as early as the treatise of leo the wise in the mid 10th century and reccomended as the standard issue basic infantry armour in the manuscript of nikephorous fokas a bit later. the construction being either cotton layers or cotton wadding as padding with an outer layer of silk. for the standalone / underarmour gambesons known as kavadia. and the overarmour epilorikion which was probnaably of similar construction although perhaps not as thick as a standalone infantry kavadion.
and that was seen to be for the sake of its durability however im not sure if the 'outer layer was the lining that was up against the body, or the facing that was exposed to the air
its perhaps worth noting though that byzantine textile armour was fairly substantial since the phrase as thick as can be stitched is used with reference to the kavadion of the infantry and light cavalry, and the thick felt caps, alongside turbans, that were worn by infantry in the place of helmets.
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Sat 05 Sep, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Silk to Stop Arrows |
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If you read an article on Mongols in the Dec. 1996 edition of National Geographic magazine you will come across an illustration of a Mongol cavalryman on page 14 with the accompanying caption that reads:
"...Under a loose robe he wore a tightly woven silk tunic, which blunted the damage of enemy arrows."
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Sat 05 Sep, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Silk to Stop Arrows |
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| Shahril Dzulkifli wrote: | If you read an article on Mongols in the Dec. 1996 edition of National Geographic magazine you will come across an illustration of a Mongol cavalryman on page 14 with the accompanying caption that reads:
"...Under a loose robe he wore a tightly woven silk tunic, which blunted the damage of enemy arrows." |
The highlighted part of that sentence is purely conjecture - a guess by the author. We need primary texts specifically telling us what this was used for.
"Why?" is the hardest question to answer in history. In many cases we simply don't know.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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