Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Research for a novel- versatile swords Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next 
Author Message
R Ashby





Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Likes: 6 pages

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I imagined the sword for hardened leather/padded/quilted type armour, and the axe for mail. Maybe she needs a baseball bat with some spikes in it! LOL
View user's profile Send private message
Lukasz Papaj




Location: Malbork, Poland
Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

R Ashby wrote:
Maybe she needs a baseball bat with some spikes in it!
That would be "godendag" or some other 'holy water sprinkler"
Dual wieldin' stealthy type .. hopefuly not another "dark elf". Other things is just use something fitting into how your world works. That and Stilletto FTW (cause every armour has some openings, and every nasty has a heart ... somewhere Happy )
View user's profile Send private message
R Ashby





Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Likes: 6 pages

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukasz Papaj wrote:
R Ashby wrote:
Maybe she needs a baseball bat with some spikes in it!
That would be "godendag" or some other 'holy water sprinkler"
Dual wieldin' stealthy type .. hopefuly not another "dark elf". Other things is just use something fitting into how your world works. That and Stilletto FTW (cause every armour has some openings, and every nasty has a heart ... somewhere Happy )


LOL- no elves in this one- that's a bit overdone.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,636

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

R Ashby wrote:
I imagined the sword for hardened leather/padded/quilted type armour, and the axe for mail. Maybe she needs a baseball bat with some spikes in it! LOL

That would be better than trying to cut cloth or leather with a sword. Swords were intended to cut flesh. Any attempt to cut armour will just leave you open to get killed. Thrusts are a little more effective aginst light armour but it would be suicide to rely on the tactic.
View user's profile Send private message
R Ashby





Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Likes: 6 pages

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 3:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

it's starting to look like a hand-and-half sword and an axe is going to be the go! It'd certainly be different.

And maybe a shield...... LOL
View user's profile Send private message
Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 385

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, if you are after "diferent" you could alwayse go for a lantern shield. It is also really versitile, it does about 8 different thing to a really mediocre degree Laughing Out Loud
View user's profile Send private message
Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Our friend R. Ashby wrote, "it's starting to look like a hand-and-half sword and an axe is going to be the go! It'd certainly be different.

And maybe a shield...... LOL"


Hmmmmm.....I bet she doesn't get asked out on a lot of dates! LOL!!!


Well, It has always seemed to me that a basket hilted broadsword or backsword with a targe make a potentially pretty lethal combination especially when the targe is disguising a nice sharp dirk.
View user's profile Send private message
R Ashby





Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Likes: 6 pages

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ken Speed wrote:
Our friend R. Ashby wrote, "it's starting to look like a hand-and-half sword and an axe is going to be the go! It'd certainly be different.

And maybe a shield...... LOL"


Hmmmmm.....I bet she doesn't get asked out on a lot of dates! LOL!!!


Well, It has always seemed to me that a basket hilted broadsword or backsword with a targe make a potentially pretty lethal combination especially when the targe is disguising a nice sharp dirk.


Every chick needs a weapon or three...... :-)

I really like broad and basket swords- beautiful weapons and very practical, but I wanted something that could used with two hands as well as one.
View user's profile Send private message
Toke Krebs Niclasen




Location: Copenhagen
Joined: 31 Jan 2010

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=185689#185689
Try take a look at this one.
It fit the bill and is highly unusual in fantasy. Just describe it a bit pointier and you will have a fine cut and trust blade not too bulky to carry for a small woman.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Christopher H





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 3:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sword and axe?



Wink
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ok if i can just get some input on this character i could help more. and il try talk from my experience.
ok i have studied a mix of western and eastern arts and if you looking at a ninjaesque assassin they studied and still study 18 separate martial art disciplines.
so first major question what is her training?
second what is she shaped like is she some muscle bound she hulk or is she a petite non discript girl?
i ask as what her size is as it will influence her choices.
now the key with being an assassin from what i have studied is not that you go in armed to the hilt it was done 90% of the time through poison the rest of the time if it had to come to combat ninjas anyway relied on skill in all weapons so her training is a big issue for me.
any weapons would then be concealed and would even be made look like normal everyday items so as not to give away what was going to be done.
and if she is a woman trying to get near a man in high power she wont walk around armed as she will stick out a mile away.
unless its the norm in your novel.
is you want a weapon to hide and get through armour i suggest some rondel dagger style weapon. it could pierce maille with a very determined thrust as for any plate style thing they were use for the gaps once maille and plate became normal it was more common to bludgeon your opponent or find a gap.
most ninja weapons were to tie up then kill the enemy or to find gaps take out the eyes etc.
as far as body type i ask as my girlfriend trains with me and we went through a HUGE range of weapons to see what she liked as we both reenact now and do many periods so i wanted to find a suitable range for her. we also do HEMA and some irish martial arts so have a broad base of skills.
now she is 5' 10" and is of an athletic build but she does not like most as one previous person pointed out girly weapons. so after we went through all these she chose out a messer and buckler which i altered to make the sword more usable for reenactment periods eg a long seax and so on. now she is an archer as thats what she liked. so to is your character an archer. now even with the short recurve bow i gave her its still hard to carry much else. and she can leave the sword on her lower back and buckler or small shield on her arm or at her hip. so i would say thats your best bet for stuff.
and remeber quivers are usless in a situation where you have to run the arrows fall out fletching brakes etc arrow bags with spacers work best.
now on piercing armour take a look at this this could not be cut but was only pierced. also a spartha might work. but if she will be indoors a long sword of any type is a big no. knives and short swords.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLGwNY3xMjM
im writing my own novel at the moment very different but its interesting to see your ideas on it all.
and since im irish and train in it she could be given a shillelagh they are great.
and a sling is great you can wear it as a belt or a chain whip or meteor hammer or those indian swords whose name i forget. you might want to try a short spear as well as is small can be left in a quiver can be used like a staff or spear and is light and can pick holes in armour and so on too just an idea.
so any questions or how you feel on this advice just ask or pm me hope i helped.

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
View user's profile Send private message
R Ashby





Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Likes: 6 pages

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 3:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

She'd be athletic, tall, broad-shouldered- height is relative, but in modern terms I suppose 5'10" would be about it. Her training is not the same as ninja training, it is more generalist, with a focus on what each disciple shows the most aptitude for. The school in which she is trained is cosmopolitan in nature Disciplines include long and short blades, poison, unarmed combat, black magic, etc etc. My character specializes in archery, long blades (swords) and short blades (daggers), though I can change these, and her particular favourites are swords. Some people are trained as ninjaesque assassins, others more as commandos. My character is more the commando-type, though she is still an assassin.

But she is only an assassin for about 3 chapters of the book, the rest of the time she is more of an adventuress.

Additionally, before becoming an assassin, her father's retainers trained her in fencing, using something I refer to as a "sparring sword", which could be a rapier. I do not go into detail with the nature of this weapon, but I do relate that she has been trained from an early age with it.

An interesting aside, but I recently came across an article from a fanatic LRP player, a woman, who discussed appropriate weapons for women. She felt that swords were too reliant on upper body strength to be effective for women, and that shorter weapons were better.

After spending all weekend shopping for real estate (nothing to do with writing), I have come back to this question and have decided that flexibility makes for the most interesting character, and that a heroine should have a signature weapon/s. So really, it seems the most flexible weapons (meaning the ones that can be used in the most different ways) are a combination of a bastard sword or a messer and daggers. The bastard sword can be used with one hand or two, with a sheild in a pinch or with a dagger in a pinch (and a lot of poetic licence!), it can be used as a club or a short staff, and you can even grab the blade in your hand and use it like a short thrusting spear. It can cut on the forward swing or back, and is effective in thrusting and cutting. One like the Oakeshott XVIII would do for trying to get through a bit of maile or leather, and still be effective in cutting.

BUT THEN, there is still the side sword- light, agile, more, uh, ladylike maybe. Could be used with a buckler or a dagger or axe.


As for daggers- well that's the next round of research. I think a couple of long, thin daggers that could be used in tandem and that could be poked through maile would be good, but thrown daggers and interesting, so it could be the great debate between rondel daggers and another type.

Maybe I should just call them long, thin daggers and leave it at that! LOL


Last edited by R Ashby on Sun 21 Feb, 2010 3:56 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher H





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well to pre-empt the dagger... you could always use a stiletto Wink
Or go a different route and use an estoc...
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ok so height wise same as my girlfriend lol
well training makes sense i guess and is flexible from a writing point. is there any social norms to be taken into account?
such as what would troops be armed with and would she have gotten training in that fashion? as that would influence her.
i would kinda question this LRP player i only do steel on steel combat and depending on the sword and its make it really relies more on your forearms and wrists to a degree of course upper body comes into it but not as much as people might think i have fought many women and have been beaten many times. we always train with spears first as they are a good base for battlefield combat so is interesting to think on what is the regular combat style in your world.
one thing il add that i feel from experience of fighting and reading books the little things are SO important. nothing worse than reading a book and going that wouldnt work or is wrong i guess my hobbies ruined me that way lol.
what im getting at is take into account what she does and will need a weapon is more than that its a tool. most weapons start off that way all really except the sword. you want something she can wear and run with as a side scabbard will tangle in your legs unless the weapon is short enough to strap to the thigh or on your back. but the side is better as it allows you to protect your body from sudden attacks as well as launch them.
on axes if you like throwing stuff and versatile weapons thing about a tomahawk or viking style axe that includes a small hammer face on the back.
http://www.nativeworkshop.com/images/pipetomahawkhandle.jpg
axes allow you to throw them use the for chopping wood hammering things and can do good damage to armour especially with the hammer head and can hook things in fights and are relatively light well depending on how its made. but these were even used in Vietnam so they are useful.
a hand and a half could be good as even against armour you can half sword or use the quillons like an axe but a messer seems more useful elsewhere for general use.
as for sideswords etc most women i know who fight dont like them because the look girly lol.
and for daggers and throwing weapons just make sure they can serve a variety of uses. like some modern knives with hollw hilts so you can store fishing line and matches and other useful things in them might be handy for your character if she is travelling light.
a bow is always handy for killing game but you say archery so what type of bow crossbow you using? as they type will really influence how she carries herself about with it on her person.

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
View user's profile Send private message
Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
Joined: 28 Feb 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,248

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take Dan's advice with a grain of salt. Dual wielding in the form of the sword and dagger combination actually saw some use on the battlefield. Sir John Smythe wanted pikemen to draw both swords and daggers to continue the fight after the first thrust. Pizarro fought with sword and dagger at Cajamarca, though that was more of a massacre than a battle. Regardless, the combo enjoyed significant popularity with civilians in its era and is far more fitting for an assassin than a shield. Likewise, there's little reason to believe striking at armor with a sword, even metal armor, is suicidal. It might not accomplish anything - the sword might even break - but a strong blow has a chance of stunning the victim or breaking bones. I can think of a number of examples of skilled men making or suggesting strokes against armor.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,636

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On a battlefield with no missiles flying around dual weapons might be useful in limited situations. Though any assassin that finds herself in the middle of a battlefield is not a very good assassin IMO.
View user's profile Send private message
Colt Reeves





Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 466

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

An assassin wouldn't normally find themselves on the battlefield, but she is going to become a mercenary.

That being said, I think part of the problem lies in that, unlike in our history, this fantasy world draws from many different sources and all manner of different weapons are being used, often against weapons they would never have seen in history. If I understand correctly, you started to see a massive diversity among weapons in the West as people madly tried to come up with new ideas and weapons, but even then it was different from what we're trying to deal with here.
View user's profile Send private message
Toke Krebs Niclasen




Location: Copenhagen
Joined: 31 Jan 2010

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should also consider the difference between mercenary and general adventuress.
It makes a difference in the amount of "camping gear" vs. dedicated combat gear.

A 1½hander is not as useful on the trail as a messer or light axe if you need some kindling or firewood for the evening.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 385

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
On a battlefield with no missiles flying around dual weapons might be useful in limited situations. Though any assassin that finds herself in the middle of a battlefield is not a very good assassin IMO.

I would like to add to what Dan has said here. People coming from a fantasy/D&D frame of reference think, when the hear "assasin" of a light, swift, backstaby combatant. The dual weilding element fits in with this idea nicely. The problem is, that when you look at it, the times dual weilding was used historically was in civilian duals where there are oficial or unspoken rules (not very assasiny) or on the ocasional battlefield. However, the battlefield versions are always very heavily armoured combatants (I think I have seen a few illustrions of knights with axes held in the off hand), it makes snse for guys in full, or close to full plate harness, they dont need a shield to protect them from stray missiles and whatnot, freeing the left hand to use a seccond weapon.
Point being, the 2 situations where a dual weild makes sense are the ver yoposite of what people normaly think of when you say "assasin"
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher H





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nat Lamb wrote:
However, the battlefield versions are always very heavily armoured combatants (I think I have seen a few illustrions of knights with axes held in the off hand), it makes snse for guys in full, or close to full plate harness, they dont need a shield to protect them from stray missiles and whatnot, freeing the left hand to wrestle!

Fixed Wink
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Research for a novel- versatile swords
Page 3 of 4 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum