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Jared Smith
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 Posted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Tumbling/Gymnastics and Medieval Physical Training |
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| Steven H wrote: |
Leap over, no, I'd agree. But the tale I've heard repeatedly is of getting into the saddle without the stirrups. Which would be easier. But I still can't cite/source it. |
I don't know the specific volume and section, but the idea of training new levies to vault onto wooden horses as a winter exercise has been associated with De Re Militari, Vegetius since roughly 4th century time frame. I have read of it in the context of Carolingian training as well, but am not sure if this has a specific source, or if it is an assumed continuation of the prior teaching. The concept in Carolingian era was supposed to facilitate very rapid dismount, remount in skirmish type situations involving both foot combat and mounted combat.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Vincent Le Chevalier
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| Posted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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There is also a depiction of exercise on a horse (fake horse I suppose) in this drawing of the fencing hall at the Leiden university:
http://www.thearma.org/arttalk/at39.htm
Not medieval but the idea must have been older than that...
Regards,
--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Steven H
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| Posted: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Tumbling/Gymnastics and Medieval Physical Training |
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| David Teague wrote: |
I'm a bit skeptical on this as I've gotten to assist with the Tournament of the Phoenix joust (the only jousting in the US sanctioned by the Royal Armouries of England) and the international jousters I've met are in top shape, have beautiful spring steel harnesses (thus lighter than period armour), are superb horse riders and they all needed the stirrups to mount (along with a step stool when out of the jousting arena). |
Hmm, well what the 'leap into the saddle' meme may represent is an ideal to which on should strive. It may be unachieveable but it still informs us about what they considered important and useful - which addresses my original question.
Cheers,
Steven
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Steven H
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| Posted: Wed 17 Feb, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | Steven H wrote: | | And I'm quite amused by the connection between a fencing school and a "bawdyhouse". |
That's the cardio area of the gym. |
Thank you Nathan. Thank you. 
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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David E. Farrell
Location: Evanston, IL Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Fri 19 Feb, 2010 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Tumbling/Gymnastics and Medieval Physical Training |
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| Steven H wrote: | | David Teague wrote: |
I'm a bit skeptical on this as I've gotten to assist with the Tournament of the Phoenix joust (the only jousting in the US sanctioned by the Royal Armouries of England) and the international jousters I've met are in top shape, have beautiful spring steel harnesses (thus lighter than period armour), are superb horse riders and they all needed the stirrups to mount (along with a step stool when out of the jousting arena). |
Hmm, well what the 'leap into the saddle' meme may represent is an ideal to which on should strive. It may be unachieveable but it still informs us about what they considered important and useful - which addresses my original question.
Cheers,
Steven |
I think this is one of those WMAW/LH memes that has come from folks casually repeating the feats of arms attributed to very specific individuals as though they were the norm and often misrepresenting them in the process (innocently usually).
I think this particular item draws from the feats of Jacques de Lalaing and Marshal Boucicault (sp?) (maybe even William Marshal) - things that chroniclers wrote down, but were likely exaggerations of things the people did do or completely made up. So in the most even light, they were probably seen as ideals (certainly the men were considered the pinnacle of the knightly arts) - set high enough that one would spend a lifetime trying to come even close.
AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later  )
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
-- King Henry, Henry V, William Shakespeare
Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused... but on a higher level.
-- Enrico Fermi
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This is a standard topic