Wow, I have never seen that kind of burgonet (with the tall, arched brim and wide-open field of view) accompanied by a buffe. All of the burgonets I've seen with buffes, the buffe meets the brim to form a narrow vision slit like a close helmet. Have you ever seen another example of the configuration in the image you posted, James?

If I'm not mistaken, one of the Coat-of-plates recovered from the Battle of Wisby had heldery designs on it, which would indicate it was origionally designed for a knight or other noble. Yet at the time of the battle it was being worn by a militaman, this probably happened with a lot of armour.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Randall Moffett wrote: There sure is... in fact there is a great deal of info on this for the period you are looking at. Check out the register of Datani, the italian arms and armour merchant of the 14th century. The guy has a full scale economy of selling old arms and armour The York Archbiz. probate inventories are full of older armour and arms still in use some score or half a century later. RPM. I think the more " strict " living history people should keep the above in mind when they dismiss some odd mixtures of older armour that where probably very common or at least more common than we assume ? There are certainly reasonable limits like not seeing old Roman armour or arms used 5 centuries past their best before date but an old but still functional sword might still be very much in use 50 to 100 years past the period we normally associate with it. Also when one gets to later periods with the use of official military uniforms and standard official kit one would see less personal choice in personal kit, but in earlier periods there wasn't an official service sword or armour. and there would be more room for odd or eccentric anachronistic mix and matching of kit. Now with the very rich or high nobles keeping up with fashion would certainly influence how late they might still use some old piece of armour or weapon: But then many old blades where remounted in more current styles of hilts if the blade had value as being of superior quality and in maybe being prized as a family heirloom ? And there is the " hand me downs " of out of fashion armour with the elites going down the food chain with the older pieces still being used by close retainers ( last year's model ;) :lol: ) and older still being passed along to common soldiers and militias, mercenaries and civilians.

I agree with this, though does anyone think it's possible a helmet from the 1390's could be worn with a kit almost entirely from the 1350's?
(I'm trying to be cheap and save money with my kit!)

I guess is it possible but I doubt it. A few of the decorated rivets had been replaced and the arms have been matched to a noble family from the low country not Denmark. The fact that by this point small vertical plates and long horizontal plates are the state of the art and that the arms do not match that of a Dane knight seems to go well with the initial concept Thordmann recommends that they mostly are very old for the most part.

RPM

Adam, it should be kept in mind that the bevor on A 499 KMV, pinned as it is to the breastplate, is a very different animal compared to those that strap to the burgonet, effectively making it into something functionally very like a closehelm. As I say, these were not super rare,and may have been more common than surviving specimens would suggest, as the only evidence to show that a breastplate had had one would be the mount for the cotter pin. A 1212 and A 1185 also have such bevors, and A 691 has some sort of pin in that location (can't quite make it out), though it is currently displayed with a bevor of the strapped on sort. It should be noted that all these examples are of Brunswick make, so I have no idea if such bevors were made anywhere else. They had several advantages over the more usual kind; I expect you can figure out what. Ugly as sin, though! :eek:

Getting this thread back on track, here is a later example of recycled armour, a burgonet from the time of the English Civil War, at the Royal Armouries U.K.

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Hi everyone,
long laminated tassets to the polyn are a fairly common feature of 16th and 17th cent armours, what is different is the unlaminated section above the polyn, this could be a retro fit itself.
Re outdated armour, there are specific guild rules in the 14thC in England regarding the cloth covering of old armour to spruce it up for resale. They didn't like the cover up in case it hid faults and damage, but it evidently went on. I could burble on for ages, but specific to this thread....in a Flemish 15th C painting , by I think Memling, a mass of knights are clearly shown with sallets in the front rank, and houndskull bascinets with aventails at the back.
When I can remember more detail I will post again.