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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

AHHHHHHHHHH! I have had it (for now). I literally split one of the scales on the last hammer blow that I threw to finish the last rivet!!!!!!!! I have reached my wits end with this project. I guess i can chalk it up to being impatient. I was actually very satisfied with everything up until this point, and now I am back at zero! Soooo frustrated!!!!!


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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, if you are willing to "cheat" a bit, you can try to glue the broken off bit in place?
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Thu 28 Jan, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have come this far on it twice now and had to start over. I thought for about two seconds about glue, and then I said to myself "NO". I am stubborn and I want it to be as nice as I can make it. The red oak is admittedly known to splinter easily. I am going to do it over again, and this time I am going to go as slow as possible. I am going to do it right if it kills me! Either way i am getting better at doing this every time i have to redo it. I can whip out one scale in about a half an hour at this point. I need to stay positive and keep my head.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jan, 2010 6:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, no! I remember DROPPING one of the nearly-finished bone plates for my Ewart Park sword, and having to glue the end back on.

Try ash, maybe? It won't split as easily.

Good luck!

Matthew
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jan, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I glued back the corner on my first Ewart Park, and I've got one or two swords with dangerous splits in the hilt plates. Yep, the splitting is a big issue. I've found though that using the ball peen on rivets has so far reduced the splitting to zero. It drastically reduces the chances of the rivet bending. But having seen the bend rivets on some of the original swords, I wouldn't be surprized if you could have frequently heard a couple of swears from a ancient swordmakers workplace back then:) N.b. ash, oak, yew, bone all split very easily. Beech and horn a lot less.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Jan, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try tossing the new scales in some linseed oil (a bucket full...) for a week, then buffing it. That should help.

M.

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David Cooper




Location: UK
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just an update ion my earlier posts of Neil Burridge's Limehouse sword. I've just finished a scabbard for it. It's sheepshin lined, wood core and leather covering. I'm not sure if sheepshin linings were used on bronze age swords but it does keep the sword snug in the scabbard. I couldn't find too many illustrations of bronze age scabbards so this one is speculative to say the least.


The journey not the destination
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Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Holy cow David Eek! . I think you just made me fall in love with bronze age weaponry. That is outstanding work. The weapon just begs to be swung. Great job and thank you for sharing.
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, gorgeous! There is hard evidence for cow-hair lining, so I don't think sheepskin is much of a stretch. (Not as sure about the bit on the baldric--that would tend to show up in a carving or something.) Love the decoration on the leather!

Good stuff, thanks!

Matthew
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Feb, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really nice work David! You raised the bar for the rest of us with that sword... Eek!
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Tue 10 May, 2011 6:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am bumping this thread because I am very close to finishing the Ewart Park sword. This has been on the work bench forever. I have all total made 11 scales for this thing. I have the scales in place, and just need to attach a pommel. Since the last time I had posted, I have made scales out of hickory and drilled the holes wonky. These new cherry scales look nice, and will get a lot darker. Stay tuned for pictures... probably have some up by tomorrow.
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E. Storesund





Joined: 10 Jan 2011

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed 11 May, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looking forward to seeing them. I think it is amazing how beautiful and elegant many of the bronze age swords look. Real eye catchers for sure.
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Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Wed 11 May, 2011 1:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luke Zechman wrote:
I thought for about two seconds about glue, and then I said to myself "NO". I am stubborn and I want it to be as nice as I can make it.


Ahah. I recognize myself in this Happy I can't count the number of grips I've torn to pieces because a raiser had an unwanted cord imprint or such details that no many would care about or even notice.

Luke Zechman wrote:
Stay tuned for pictures... probably have some up by tomorrow.


You bet I will (never noticed this thread before somehow).

Cheers and good luck for the final assembly.

J
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Wed 11 May, 2011 6:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After many struggles, and a lot of learning, this Ewart Park sword is assembled. I say assembled, because i still need to finish the wood on the hilt, and polish the blade. I went for a different look with the hilt shape, as I understand it is interpretive. I wanted smooth flowing lines, and the transition from grip to pommel to be the same line. The pommel is tear drop shaped, and tapers nicely. The rivets look nice, and no splitting this time. It is comforting to know that the ancients had trouble fixing these scale to the sword as well. Many historic example feature bent rivets. I would suggest a project like this to anyone that likes DIY. As mentioned before i had actually attached scales to this thing 4 or 5 times without good results.

I placed the bronze sword next to my trusty gladii for some scale. Also it should be noted that the wood featured in the Fulhams pommel and cross are from the same tree that makes up the Ewart park sword. Eventually, the hilt will be a reddish orange color. The wood is cherry, and is a delight to work. Stiffer than black walnut, but consistent, and forgiving.

The pommel is large, and this was intended to make this tip heavy blade a little more balanced. I currently have it soaking in linseed oil, and i suspect it will gain some weight still. It was dry and thirsty. Take the weight added when the pommel is soaked, and remove a little bit of weight when polishing, and the sword should have a good handling characteristic.

Enjoy



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Scott Woodruff





Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 12 May, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So Luke, are you going to do a cutting video with that for us? Just kidding, but that would be really cool. Anybody out there ever cut with a bronze sword? If I ever get around to doing a bronze blade, it will be for that purpose. I was somewhat taken aback by the large size of that pommel at first, but it does look like it might be quite practical. I would love to know how it handles. I know that some La Tene swords have some pretty voluminous wooden pommels, but I have never seen a bronze-age sword with one quite that large.
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Thu 12 May, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually I spent some time today messing around with this sword. I was decapitating dandelions in my friends yard to get acquainted with accuracy of swinging this bronze. I then preceded to clear a 10x10 section of this nasty invasive plant called Japanese Knot Weed. The stuff is easy to cut, and does not mar the blade. A plastic bottle left a few minor scratches, which is easy to do now that I have this thing polished to a mirror finish. I forgot to mention that I had not even properly sharpened this sword, and it still demolished a bottle with ease.
I would like to do a video, and may. I often though to myself that there are no good bronze cutting videos. This sword has been a challenge for me, and I am satisfied with what i have ended up with. The pommel can always be altered. I am afraid to make the pommel lighter, as the point of balance is around 4.5ins from the cross. I may add some bone inlay to the pommel, and bring the weight back up.
It feels good in the hand. I may round the edges of the pommel a bit more. In a good swing the hand ends up hugging the side of the pommel. The pommel will most likely end up being a bit smaller. I really like the design, and have to look at it, and use it more before i figure out what I will do with it. I still occasionally tweek hilts that I have assembled three years ago already. Sometimes you just need to do something, and then use it and ponder it for a while.
I am not so sure that the pommel is much larger that other bronze repo that i have seen. It is just shaped differently. I have seen a lot of round forms that flare out were the grip meets the pommel. I like the way those hilts look, but could never imagine that they would feel great in use. i have no experience with these impressions, and wanted to do something differently. This has been an experimental piece for me, and I may do some inlay, even though there is no evidence for such.

Julien,
it is kind of a curse to fuss over small things, but the end result is always satisfying, and the lessons learned are valuable. It is comforting to know that I am not alone.
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Sun 15 May, 2011 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Today I am modifying the shape of the pommel, and removing some bulk. I am looking for historically plausible ways to increase the weight of the pommel, after removing some material. I was thinking about a bone butt cap, and was going to put a bronze disc underneath it for weight. Any ideas would be appreciated.

I have contacted Neil Burridge, about ordering a new blade. I was considering a khopesh, but have no idea how the handles would have been attached. Also i was wondering if YOU were going to get a bronze age blade, what would it be? I am curious to see what other peoples interests are.

I will post pictures of the reworked pommel, and am still considering a short cutting video. What would you like to see being cut by this blade? Suggestions are welcome, although I will avoid cutting things that will mar the finish, as it is time consuming to achieve.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 16 May, 2011 5:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luke Zechman wrote:
Also i was wondering if YOU were going to get a bronze age blade, what would it be?


Simple, one of everything! Why tie yourself down to one little part of a spectacular era?

Since bronze sword-makers were never concerned about making the pommel a counterweight for the blade in any way, I would suggest that any "problem" you perceive with the balance is either not really a problem, or is better solved by lightening the blade. I realize you are not necessarily aiming for complete historical accuracy, but I just cringe a little at seeing anyone put so much work into a piece and then add non-historical features to compensate for some modern need.

Good luck, though!

Matthew
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Luke Zechman




Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania
Joined: 18 Jan 2009

Posts: 278

PostPosted: Mon 16 May, 2011 8:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew,
Thanks for the reply. So on one hand most of the thought I get form this forum suggest that we don't know exactly what these swords looked like. Is my pommel completely removed from something that is possible? How do we know that they were not worried about balance? Why wouldn't they be? The way that I understand is that they were making swords of a quality far beyond what anyone else (reproductions) has achieved. If they were so good at crafting these blades, than why would they have not considered balance? Are these swords just for chopping? I would think that is they were strictly for chopping, than they would not have a point. I would like to know what is not historically accurate about my reproduction, if you don't mind telling me. I see a lot of flattened circular pommels on these sword, but how do we know they all looked like that?

Don't cringe at the amount of time that I have put in. I may only have one finished bronze sword, but I technically have hilted this one more than four times. I will take the experience, and I LOVE doing this, so fret not sir.


The reason not "one of everything" is a matter of money for me. I don't have the money to have "one of everything". I don't have the money to have several dozen custom pieces. I don't get a new sword every month. I don't get a new sword every couple of months. I will be getting another Burridge blade in the near future, and wanted some ideas. I like the khopesh, and also considered a Mycenaean Horned variety. I was just interested in what other people like. I like a lot, so deciding is torture. If money was not an option, I wouldn't even be talking Bronze Age sword, I would be attempting to make a historically accurate falcata, or falx.

I got into the DIY, because I wanted to have something nicer than what my budget could handle. I am concerned with historical accuracy, and I get my information here. I know that I should go read a million books about the topic, but time is also an issue. If I should stop asking question here, than some one please tell me.

Thanks again for the reply, you have always been a huge help for me.

Cheers
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 16 May, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luke Zechman wrote:
Matthew,
Thanks for the reply. So on one hand most of the thought I get form this forum suggest that we don't know exactly what these swords looked like. Is my pommel completely removed from something that is possible?


Well, we have a few examples, and I don't think any of them are as big as yours, that's all I mean. "Possible" covers an awful lot! So if there is any reasonable data at all, that's what I tend to stick with.

Quote:
How do we know that they were not worried about balance? Why wouldn't they be?


Sorry, I should have phrased that better: There is no evidence that they used the pommel as a counterweight for these sorts of blades. They are just wood or bone or antler, and we know of one that is hollow bronze. Similar swords with cast bronze hilts often just have disc pommels. Heck, even Roman swords, short or long, right into the 4th and 5th centuries have organic pommels, often quite small. So, either the blades were balanced enough that a counterweight was not necessary, or balance was not enough of a factor to worry them. Mind you, I do *not* think they handled like frying pans! As you say, they were amazing craftsmen and our reproductions do not always match the originals.

You'd have to handle a number of originals to get a feel for what was going on back then. I haven't handled any! There are folks who have, but I'm pretty sure that at least some of them do not really know what makes a good or well-balanced weapon and will simply describe them as "heavy".

Oh, I should mention that some Mycenaean "rapiers" have stone pommels, but it doesn't look like all of them did by any means. Lots of gold, too, but it's just foil over wood or ivory (or stone).

Quote:
I see a lot of flattened circular pommels on these sword, but how do we know they all looked like that?


We don't! We know they also used the kind of mushroom-shaped ones. Yours just looked big, to me.

Quote:
The reason not "one of everything" is a matter of money for me. I don't have the money to have "one of everything".


Oh, me neither! I've been lucky enough to get a number of pieces cheaply or as gifts over the years. Honestly, I'm not sure just what I would get next. Haven't really been doing much with my bronze things lately, but even while I was heavily into it, my moods would swing pretty wildly! "I need one of *those*! No, wait, one of THOSE!" Hard to advise on Neil's swords, they're all pretty dreamy! If you like the overall look of the Ewart Park, the Limehouse is stunning, but if you want something different from that, sure, a khopesh or maybe a Mindelheim. Or yeah, Mycenaean Type G--I got one of those!

Quote:
I got into the DIY, because I wanted to have something nicer than what my budget could handle. I am concerned with historical accuracy, and I get my information here. I know that I should go read a million books about the topic, but time is also an issue. If I should stop asking question here, than some one please tell me.


No no! Get books if you can, yes, but this is still one of the best places to get information that is otherwise scattered through dozens of obscure and expensive reference works.

And please do keep sharing the photos!

Matthew
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