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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,920

PostPosted: Thu 12 Nov, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
What is the source of the picture and how is/was it described?


Honest, there is still some interest but some of this is like pulling nails. Big Grin

Cordially

GC
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Thu 12 Nov, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah,
Here's the link, its described as American.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...0%26um%3D1

No worries,
Morgan

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,920

PostPosted: Thu 12 Nov, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.plamb.com/mainlinks.php?id=88

So, aside from this one being obviously described and previously owned by Neumann, what differences between this and yours show? What elements have we discussed so far and what makes yours less likely to be actually just like this one aside from some pretty superficial characteristics.

It seems a bit like we're going in circles.

Cheers

GC
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Argh. The ATARN home page:

http://www.atarn.org/frameindex.htm

has the organization's name written in many different languages and scripts, and none of them bear more than a passing resemblance to the writing on your sword. A very frustrating search indeed.
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Your search is much appreciated, Lafayette!

"White Tiger" wrote me with this:
"That quasi arabic look reminds me more than anything else of symbols common in those old treatises. Unfortunately each alchemist modified symbols to suit himself and assigned meanings to them that were completely personal, so finding out what the inscription means is most unlikely."

Going in circles, Glen?
I prefer to think of it as "reflecting", which has an intuitive element to it. It was great to talk about the sword and I actually found it useful (as part of the process) posting and looking at similar swords. I always like it when people post swords of theirs that are along the lines of whatever sword you are discussing or presenting. We actually had a lot of correspondence. going on. Then, when I went home and perused Neuman again, everything really came together, as far as satisfying the mind (an endless task) goes anyway.

Those patterns you listed were on the money! I had looked at some of the same ones earlier but this time they made much more of an impression after talking/typing about them yesterday. Especially 163, 168, 302, 311 and 312 . I felt I had a much more inate feel for them. I think you are right about the sword being european and the silver taped hilt seems very english to me. I think of this sword as 18th century and having come to really love swords from that period, I am still amazed that I actually own some! I feel very privledged to be able to hold these beautiful touchstones to history and the history of a particular martial art that I have practiced for years as well.
This thread has really increased my appeciation of the sword. Which is exactly what I wanted. And of course to share and talk with others who dig old swords! Cool I'll post new pics of it soon!


Peace, Love, Swords!

inkothemgard!
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is from Sa'ar Nudel:

"Hi Morgan
I went through your thread regarding this sword.
I also got an answer - this IS Arabic script for sure, there is one letter set that exists only in Arabic, but there are no composed words, so no meaning. I can send you a transcript.
Very interesting - the blade does look like Georgian blades and also like a Bedouin trade blade - best blades were imported from Hungary & Germany. Clone blades were crudely made locally. I collect Bedouin Sabers for research (so far I have 8) - one of them is basically a Georgian blade & scabbard, fitted with a simple Bedouin hilt. The blade, though highly resembles your blade in overall shape, is marked with a long line of Gurdas (European "eyelash" mark, very famous).
So I guess the plot thickens...
Sa'ar

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Nathan M Wuorio




Location: Maine.
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This thread is very entertaining. I'm seeing all sorts of input from many very knowledgeable people and I'm learning quite a lot as I read along. This is an excellent mystery. Now I hear that the writing is Arabic, the blade is most likely Georgian, and the hilt might be Bedouin!
Nathan.
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think we have established that the hilt is Bedouin.
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
I don't think we have established that the hilt is Bedouin.


lol,
No the hilt is not bedouin. But it has been established that it's a neat-o sword. (I think the grip at least is English) Its probably just "European Hanger". Who can say where the blade came from, poland, germany, hungary, england. Why not Sileasia for that matter? I have really developed an affection for 18th century hangers and I imagine that it could be as pernicious a habit as collecting smallswords Big Grin
One thing about this particular sword that I find interesting compared to the other hangers I have come across, is the balance. Most of the private purchace hangers I've come across are lightly balanced. This one is weighted for a guillotine-like chop. Even a german NCO hanger that I once owned was lighter in the hand than this. Though this blade is only 30 and a half inches and not technically the length for a horseman, it seems ideal for chopping at hapless "pedestrians" while mounted. And of course anyone above Leut., even in the infantry, would have a horse.
Needless to say, this is one sword I wouldnt want to be chucked under the chin with.
If anyone owns similar examples of this kind of sword I would love to see them...........just because.

inkothemgard!
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Shayan G





Joined: 26 Sep 2006

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Fri 20 Nov, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Armenian         Reply with quote

Perhaps your Georgian guess wasn't so far off. The first thing I thought of when I looked at the script was Armenian.

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/script/armen.gif

Maybe someone labeling the sword accidentally wrote American instead of Armenian ;-)

You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Fri 20 Nov, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Armenian         Reply with quote

Shayan G wrote:
Perhaps your Georgian guess wasn't so far off. The first thing I thought of when I looked at the script was Armenian.

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/script/armen.gif

Maybe someone labeling the sword accidentally wrote American instead of Armenian ;-)


Thanks for the llink, Shayan. It looks a little like a lot of things.

What I would like to see is other pictures of European Talismanic writing on sword blades in particular. And any written info on its traditions in general. I'm a lookin.

inkothemgard!
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a pic of some W. European Talismanic writing on a blade. It has the traditional moon theme.


 Attachment: 39.42 KB
talismanic blade 1.jpg


 Attachment: 39.7 KB
talismanic blade 2.jpg


inkothemgard!
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a close up of a guard that has astrological symbols on it


 Attachment: 58.88 KB
astro-hanger.jpg


inkothemgard!
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