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Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Dec, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Are The Romans an Exception?         Reply with quote

Yes, I would have to agree on the face of the argument that the Roman generals were not in the front ranks but behind somewhere most certainly where they could observe the battle and direct their troops. But...let's examine where the Roman Commander was exactly. (1) He had to be where he could observe the battle and its fluctuations in order to direct troops to the best course of action. (2) A Roman Legion Commander still had to command the respect of his soldiers so he to be seen somewhere close to the action where he would be in danger to get this respect.

Let's examine premise (1) he directed the battle from direct observation and made adjustjments. It is my opinion and only my opinion that when a battle plan was made it was adhered to due to the difficulty of changes once formations were engaged. A commander had the option of committing his reserves or cavalry in regard to a difficult or favorable battle situation but it was the tactics of the Legion formations and the leadership of the Centurions which really held sway over the battle's outcome. There again this is only my opinion and only applies to the period of the professionalized Roman Army.

Premise (2) that the Roman Commander was exposed to the hazards of combat would naturally be expected by the legionnaires of the professional army. Before the professionalization of the army it was still a citizen army with its rank and file expected to provide their arms and armor as well as their living bodies for service which would necessitate a Roman Commander fighting alongside his fellow citizens similar to the city states of the Greeks.

What we have to bear in mind here is that the Roman Army evolved from a citizen army to a totally professionalized army so we have different periods of evolution when we discuss the type of leadership. But I believe that in both cases the commander or commanders (since the romans like to appoint two) were somewhere close to the action.

The primary test is that a leader, King, commander put himself in the fighting at some stage or in a position of personal danger. Being directly involved in combat swinging a sword or wielding a spear was not necessary for a Roman Commander since just being on the battlefield near the fighting satisfied the requirement.

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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Are The Romans an Exception?         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:

The primary test is that a leader, King, commander put himself in the fighting at some stage or in a position of personal danger. Being directly involved in combat swinging a sword or wielding a spear was not necessary for a Roman Commander since just being on the battlefield near the fighting satisfied the requirement.

This is pretty much true for all commanders from all periods and all cultures until the 20th century. It isn't a "Western" phenomenon.
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Jesse Kaye





Joined: 09 Mar 2010

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Excellent Book on Hoplite Battle         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
I have recently finished reading an excellent book on Hoplite Battle which describes the armor, weapons, chaos of battle and the aftermath as well as the leadership and tactics involved. It is the decisive infantry battle from which western warfare has evolved.

The title is THE WESTERN WAY OF WAR Infantry Battle in Classical Greece by Victor Davis Hanson published by the University of California at Berkeley. Victor Hanson is Professor of Classics at California State University, Fresno California. It is available from Barnes and Noble online for $21.95 plus shipping.

For those who study the evolution of western warfare this book is an excellent foundation for that study.


This book is a collection of nine scholarly essays specifically about the Hoplite soldier: describing their weapons and offensive arms, identification and retrieval of casualties, phalanx battle style (from within), sacrifices and battle rituals, etc. While academic in nature, it was a good read and differed from other books on the subject in that it didn't paradigmatically examine Greek battle in terms of strategy, tactics, politics, or similar macro-issues. Instead, this truly observed the Hoplite soldier from the perspective of a Hoplite soldier as we now understand them. The book wasn't INCREDIBLE, but I feel satisfied that I got my money's worth.

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