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Gabriele Becattini





Joined: 21 Aug 2007

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: A&A spanish montante         Reply with quote

i'm wondering if someone has already try it, i'm pretty sure that it will be a fantastic trainer like all the other items from A&A,

just curious to learn something about it,

gabriele
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William Carew




Location: Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: A&A spanish montante         Reply with quote

Gabriele Becattini wrote:
i'm wondering if someone has already try it, i'm pretty sure that it will be a fantastic trainer like all the other items from A&A,

just curious to learn something about it,

gabriele


Me also. Especially now that Eric Myers and Steve Hick have provided a translation of a montante manual for us.

Here's the A&A montante trainer in question.

Cheers,

Bill

Bill Carew
Jogo do Pau Brisbane
COLLEGIUM IN ARMIS
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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have handled the Montante trainer and Craig (of A&A) and I spent the last year developing a Spadone trainer as well (i.e. for Marozzo's sword for two hands). Although it isn't on the website yet, photos should go up soon. Both of these swords are designed as trainers--that is, they have reasonably flexible blades (like the A&A Fechterspiel sword), although obviously the dimensions are different. The Spadone is even a little longer (about 66") than the Montante with 16" quillons and a 16" handle.

The point of the Spadone trainer and the Montante trainer was to make a "safe" and purpose-built trainer available to the WMA community. Given the correct amount of experience and caution, I think you could even do some light free-play with these--provided you use good control and significant protective equipment.

Steve

Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Christian Henry Tobler
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 690

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi all,

The handling on these trainers is amazing. I haven't studied any of the relevant Iberian material yet, but I've done Liechtenauer style drills with the A&A Montante. [Bill: Imagine the swords in 'Goliath' and you'll get the picture!]

I highly recommend them; it's only a matter of time (and money!) before I pick one up.

All the best,

Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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James Nordstrom




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 18 Sep 2003

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 7:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They are a lot of fun.

BUY ONE!

You'll not regret it.

Get your friends to buy one too, then you can have a lot more fun.
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've had mine since 2006, and I think its an amazing trainer. It essentially is everything that the A&A Fechterspiel sword is, only bigger. I've primarily used mine for experimenting with the Liechtenauer tradition with a larger weapon (such as seen in Goliath), but I've done a little bit of Bolognese spadone with it.

If you want to practice with a larger Renaissance two hander, you won't be disappointed with this one at all.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Gabriele Becattini





Joined: 21 Aug 2007

Posts: 714

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

wow,i want to see the spadone trainer too! i can't wait.
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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele Becattini wrote:
wow,i want to see the spadone trainer too! i can't wait.

It should be up very soon. Craig was working on the site earlier today.

Steve

Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Gabriele Becattini





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Posts: 714

PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

just seen the spadone trainer Eek!, it looks amazing,
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Oct, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: #234 Spadone Trainer now on site         Reply with quote

The Spadone is now up on the site. It is the #234 Spadone Trainer a really great sword as can be seen here modeled by the talented Steve Reich and Antonie Dvorakova at the WMAW 2009.



Hope you like it Happy

Craig
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F. Carl Holz




Location: someplace out on the water (and probably not able to access my PM)
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! Eek! :O

And just when i thought that trimed down my wish lists to something managable!

Anybody know if there are any other Spainish systems from earlier on? ... that is ones with material out there?
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Eric Myers




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been using the montante trainers for several years and they are wonderful! I got to handle the spadone trainer at WMAW this year and it is wonderful too! Now if we could only get Craig to make a three headed flail trainer....
Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
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Steve Hick




Location: United States
Joined: 28 May 2009

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

F. Carl Holz wrote:
Wow! Eek! :O

And just when i thought that trimed down my wish lists to something managable!

Anybody know if there are any other Spainish systems from earlier on? ... that is ones with material out there?


We are working with a Portuguese manual, quite long, Godinho, that has sword alone, sword and dagger, sword and round shield, sword and buckler, sword and cape, two swords, montante, and a section against treasonous attacks. Likely some of this, the sword alone, at least, will see the light of day within the next two years, likely at WMAW or something of that sort. Its 1599, it is, so far, not LVD, its what we have. There's not much elsewise of the non LVD stuff, a snippet that Dr. Manuel Valle and Dr. Mary Curtis just published, sword-about 2 pages (pre 1580). Likely Monte, if you consider him Spanish. Still hunting leads for the "lost boys" of Spain, Pons, Torre, Roman and Sayas de Alfero.

Steve

Steve Hick
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Greg Mele
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Location: Chicago, IL USA
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Oct, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I own one of the montante trainers and let me say that is possibly my favorite trainer of all! If you really have an interest in the big swords, GET ONE NOW! Wink
Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com

www.freelanceacademypress.com
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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Page on the historic swords         Reply with quote

Here is a nice page on the historic swords, though in Spanish it works pretty well if you have your browser translate.

Montante Info

Craig
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Steve Hick




Location: United States
Joined: 28 May 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Page on the historic swords         Reply with quote

Craig Johnson wrote:
Here is a nice page on the historic swords, though in Spanish it works pretty well if you have your browser translate.

Montante Info

Craig

Also note the exemplar on which the ones that Craig has made is based, is in the third image down the page "Montante de cruceta de los denominados “de García de Paredes” C.a. 1520-1530, (Antiguo Museo del Ejército de Madrid nº inv:35.367)

Steve Hick
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F. Carl Holz




Location: someplace out on the water (and probably not able to access my PM)
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Hick wrote:
F. Carl Holz wrote:
Wow! Eek! :O

And just when i thought that trimed down my wish lists to something managable!

Anybody know if there are any other Spainish systems from earlier on? ... that is ones with material out there?


We are working with a Portuguese manual, quite long, Godinho, that has sword alone, sword and dagger, sword and round shield, sword and buckler, sword and cape, two swords, montante, and a section against treasonous attacks. Likely some of this, the sword alone, at least, will see the light of day within the next two years, likely at WMAW or something of that sort. Its 1599, it is, so far, not LVD, its what we have. There's not much elsewise of the non LVD stuff, a snippet that Dr. Manuel Valle and Dr. Mary Curtis just published, sword-about 2 pages (pre 1580). Likely Monte, if you consider him Spanish. Still hunting leads for the "lost boys" of Spain, Pons, Torre, Roman and Sayas de Alfero.

Steve


Sweet

though i was hoping to get a glimps of some of the earlier stuff. Sad Good luck with the hunt!
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Steve Hick




Location: United States
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

F. Carl Holz wrote:


Sweet

though i was hoping to get a glimps of some of the earlier stuff. Sad Good luck with the hunt!


Monte is earlier 1509
The paper from Drs. Valle Ortiz and Curtis is prior to 1580, and is old style, what kind of sword, it says sword, but has a reglas that is similar to those we have for montante. This doesn't mean anything, as Godinho has them for the doubled sword, but not sword alone, but it could be a very common training means.
Carranza has some Montante plays being mocked, 1569 or 1583, your choice.
Pablo de Paredes has 12 plays of the Montante 1599, he was a maestro major prior to Pacheco and is old style
Godinho 1599 is old style

The montante material is at least conservative. Monte's discussion is organized as to address different stages in the fight and addressing issues, but it can be mapped to reglas easily. The other montante stuff we have is reglas based, saving those who are LVD and following Pacheco's lead that there is nothing special about the things. Mendoza ends the list in 1675, he has declarations about the montante, which are a lot like Monte's statements in form.

Steve

Steve Hick
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