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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Sep, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Del Tin makes a few of the two-handers that are fighting two-handers and here is a link to one:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~DT51...+Sword.htm

Note the Del Tins are generally good quality swords although some models can be a little overweight many are accurately balanced. I have another two-hander that Del Tin calls the Venetian two-handed that weight in at 8 pounds and the whole sword is approximately 6" long.

Here is one by A & A ( Very high end and equal to Albion in reputation in quality and accuracy of handling ):
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/custom912.html

This one is closer to what you are looking at and although ornamental is very much an example of a using two-hander:
6.8 pounds and 68.5" long with a 51" blade.

Here is another Del Tin similar to the A & A sword but certainly less expensive than a custom sword:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~DT51...+Sword.htm

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Lee Barber





Joined: 22 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I visited Gravensteen back in 1987, and I can't remember seeing the sword then. I do recall the 8 or 9 executioner swords on display in the castle's museum of judicial objects. Those blades are featured in the booklets I still have from the trip.
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Sam McLean




Location: Salem, Oregon
Joined: 19 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alas, my dreams of custom sword ownership are dashed (temporarily) by automotive agony. Still, this is an important objective of mine, and something that, even if it takes years to achieve, will be worth the wait.

For now, another question arises:

1) When asking a maker for a custom sword, is it overstepping the bounds of the customer to send a specific plan (a drawing with specifications AND styling) to the maker?

I have moderate artistic talent, but am quite a draftsman, and as such it is within my capabilities to provide the maker (still undecided, but due to the sudden shortage of cash, no big hurry I suppose) with an EXACT drawing of the sword that I decide upon, whether exactly this one, or a modified version thereof, or another altogether.

That Italian two hander from Del Tin is nice looking, Jean. I would love to see your Venetian! I prefer the German style, and would like to one day own a katzbalger, dagger, fork and bodkin that match the style set forth by this impressive two hander (bearing sword or not, I'm convinced that I could swing it around and get weird looks from my neighbors and my cat just the same).

Sam

"As a galleon among many galleys"
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam McLean wrote:

1) When asking a maker for a custom sword, is it overstepping the bounds of the customer to send a specific plan (a drawing with specifications AND styling) to the maker?

That Italian two hander from Del Tin is nice looking, Jean. I would love to see your Venetian! I prefer the German style,.

Sam


Depends on the maker but most if not all appreciate getting a clear idea of what the customer wants and sending a design or drawing is very acceptable.

There are many ways to work with a custom maker and one can be very " micromanaging " or leave a lot of the details up to the maker: Many times it's better to let the maker do his thing after giving a general idea about what one wants made.

Choosing the right maker is also important; Some have very long waiting times, some are very VERY expensive and some are so in demand that they no longer take custom orders.

On the other hand one can find new and up and coming makers of great talent who are both affordable ( relatively ) and can finish the work reasonably soon. ( Most custom work is at least a question of months or even years in waiting times ).

Many makers offer for sale work that is in stock for immediate sale and if one can find something one likes this has a great deal of advantages.


Oh, the Del Tin Venetian sword is actually a German type sword but is called " Venetian " by Del Tin in their catalogue because it is currently in a " Venetian " Museum at this time ):
http://www.deltin.net/2162.htm

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Felix R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When you would like him to make a replica work. You should give him as much detail of a particular piece as you can. Just ask your smith of choise what he needs.
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam McLean wrote:
For now, another question arises:

1) When asking a maker for a custom sword, is it overstepping the bounds of the customer to send a specific plan (a drawing with specifications AND styling) to the maker?


I think that most makers will find it perfectly acceptable. If not, the question is whether the craftsman in question is "right" for you.

On the other hand, like Jean said, it might be better to give the maker some freedom, because you won't see the sword between sending the finalised drawing and receiving the sword. Some things that look good on paper may not look good in person, but more importantly, it's difficult to create a design that is dynamically right (ie has a proper static and dynamic balance, proper pivot points and proper centres of percussion). If it is difficult to communicate with a maker (e.g. because of a language barrier) and if you have no first-hand experience with similar swords he made, then perhaps you should be more specific regarding dynamic properties. Otherwise, it would probably be better to just give the maker a general idea of what you are aiming for.

I've never designed a two-hander, nor held any modern reproductions, but the antiques that I very briefly handled gave me the impression that it's very difficult to design and make one that can stand up to period usage. It seems to me that it's very difficult to balance between weight and floppy-ness for instance.
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J. Abernethy





Joined: 17 May 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If your looking for a custom German two-hander, I can offer you pics of mine. It was made by John Lundemo of Odinblades, with the blade stock having been made by Jerry Rados. It is just over 72 inches but weighs in at exactly 8lbs. With fullers and distal taper to reduce weight and improve balance, it may have the length of a bearing sword but its all fighter! John has made many zweihanders, both pattern welded and mono-steel. They are all made to be used.

This is the link to my original post when I got the sword and did a moderate review. Inside is a link to pictures.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...zweihander
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Sam McLean




Location: Salem, Oregon
Joined: 19 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First of all, to Jean and Jordan: great blades, guys! Jordan, I have seen pics of your sword before, and that's kind of what inspired me to start thinking about a custom piece. As you've said it's a bit fantastic, but it's exactly what you wanted. That's what 'custom' is all about. Whether you want Elric's Stormbringer or a perfect real world museum replica, it's up to you and the maker to arrive at your exact desire.

Second, a big thanks to Jean and Paul for advice on getting a replica made that is both stylish and functional. I think my next step is to 'rework' the design of my chosen weapon, to make it mine, truly.

Paul, if you have any links to articles on crafting swords with appropriate static and dynamic balance, pivots, and centers of percussion, perhaps you could provide me with some (I will look on my own when time permits, also) and I may be able to extrapolate that information for application to a two hander.

Great info from all sides, fellas.

Sam

"As a galleon among many galleys"
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam McLean wrote:

Paul, if you have any links to articles on crafting swords with appropriate static and dynamic balance, pivots, and centers of percussion, perhaps you could provide me with some (I will look on my own when time permits, also) and I may be able to extrapolate that information for application to a two hander.

Great info from all sides, fellas.

Sam


Well I would look at it this way: Educate yourself as much as possible about what makes a good sword as far as dynamic balance and handling is concerned as this will help you designing your sword and even more in communicating your expectations from the custom maker and in understanding what he suggests in return, but if you select a real " master " maker of swords like John Lundemo for example, you would be wise to let him use his experience rather than trying to micromanaging the making of the sword ! It's not that you should be afraid to get into a very detailed discussion about the design and what the final sword should feel like but a maker of this high caliber will always know much more than you will just reading about it. ( That is unless you start making your own and get good at it after a couple of decades. Wink Big Grin ).

Look at it this way: If you needed brain surgery you might want to know as much about it as you could to be better capable of choosing the best surgeon and to understand his recommendations and the risks involved ! BUT, you wouldn't be wise to try to hold his hand during surgery and force him to cut the way you think he should cut even if this was remotely possible. Wink

All this doesn't mean that you can't put in a lot of thought and your ideas in your own design, but the actual execution and fine details are best left to the maker.

Oh, custom work can be divided into three basic types of commissions:

1) Your own design made to as close to your ideas as possible: This is basically finding a subcontractor to do the technical work you don't have the tools, the skills and knowledge to do it yourself.

2) Custom work can also be a general request for a type of thing ( Sword, polearm, armour etc .... ) with the stylistic details being up to the maker that you have chosen because you already like their work.

3) Still custom work but NOT a commission: In this case you buy something the maker has made and designed themselves and that you like.

Don't forget that a full custom job of a sword this big by a top maker is going to be a multi-thousand dollar thing that will also take at least a year or more to be finished, so if you have something like the Del Tin which is very close to what you would design anyway, it's a good option to consider. Wink Big Grin Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Cole Sibley




Location: Montana, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Sep, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a large number of extensive discussions on sword properties (or in my own opinion sword shapes), both here on myArmoury, and at the swordforum, that will put your mind to racing. Search for things like dynamic properties, center of percussion, harmonic nodes, distal taper, point of balance for more information than you can wade through in a month. And while sword making is quite complex, in my own opinion it is not brain surgery. After you study the subject, I think a good drafting program (I used solid works) is a good starting point for seeing how sword form (shape) determines things like balance points, and can even give ideas on harmonics and percussion points. And like has already been mentioned, taking advice from the people that have made many blades is often a good idea; like most things, there is no substitute for experience.

I was in a similar position as Mr. McLean except that I couldn't afford for a custom maker to make my sword. Luckily I have a few tools and was able to make my own sword, of which I am very happy with (as rough and shabby as my sword might be compared to a more experienced maker). Not counting my (free)time and tools, the only notable expense was the heat treating, which I farmed out to a place in Michigan who did a very fine job.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Sep, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cole Sibley wrote:

I was in a similar position as Mr. McLean except that I couldn't afford for a custom maker to make my sword. Luckily I have a few tools and was able to make my own sword, of which I am very happy with (as rough and shabby as my sword might be compared to a more experienced maker). Not counting my (free)time and tools, the only notable expense was the heat treating, which I farmed out to a place in Michigan who did a very fine job.


There is a lot of merit in learning by doing and personal satisfaction: All the makers had to start somewhere. Big Grin Cool

Depends though on expectations, research, hard work patience, perseverance, some talent, the right tools, time, room to work in, cash for tools and supplies and incrementally starting with easier projects first before attempting to forge a 6 foot + twohander. Wink Cool

But, it can also be fun if one has the desire to learn to do it oneself !

Oh, but designing and having others make the design is also as creative and often a better option.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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J. Abernethy





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PostPosted: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam McLean wrote:
First of all, to Jean and Jordan: great blades, guys! Jordan, I have seen pics of your sword before, and that's kind of what inspired me to start thinking about a custom piece. As you've said it's a bit fantastic, but it's exactly what you wanted. That's what 'custom' is all about. Whether you want Elric's Stormbringer or a perfect real world museum replica, it's up to you and the maker to arrive at your exact desire.



If by "fantastic" you mean "not an exact copy" then yes. The personal opinions of whats historical and what wouldnt be are all subjective and well, personal. If you ask the maker to copy a museum piece I call it a repro. If you stay within historical guidelines and boundaries but design your own sword (Custom), than I feel its still historical, if the sword is unmistakably of historic type. Some may disagree with me obviously. And let me be clear Im not talking performance or handling, simply the look and design. Just my two cents. Good luck, its a thrilling journey.
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