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Barry C. Hutchins





Joined: 07 Jul 2009

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PostPosted: Wed 16 Sep, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Question on sheath tolerances         Reply with quote

A question for those of you who have been engaged in producing a sheath with a wooden based interior:

What are the acceptable tolerances between the interior wood surface and the blade?
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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Wed 16 Sep, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't make swords, but, I have trusted sources.
The tang of the blade must be tapered. Even the wood is good that this is tapered.
Is not good to compress the wood may split more easily.
A tolerance of 0.2 - 0.3 mm will be filled by epoxy glue.
The wood too compressed, lose the typical sound of the sword. Mad
I hate this, I love musical instruments. Eek!
The guard is good that is compressed. Blade, plays a lovely melody.Razz
If I'm wrong someone correct me. Happy
I hope this is helpful.
Ciao
Maurizio
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Kevin S





Joined: 09 Jan 2009

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PostPosted: Wed 16 Sep, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've made a couple of scabbards, and I've never bothered to measure things that way. What I do is start carving out the space for the blade, then when it seems likely to fit, clamp the two halves together to test the fit. If the blade doesn't fit yet, carve more out. Keep this up until it fits the way you want it to. Keep in mind that the wood will expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity, so if it's too snug at first it might tighten even more and make the sword hard to draw.
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Kevin S wrote
Keep in mind that the wood will expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity, so if it's too snug at first it might tighten even more and make the sword hard to draw.


I totally agree, especially the first few you make, if you keep the tolerances tight you will discover how atmosphere changes things, as does fitting on the leather outer and the chape and locket if you go that way and if a bit of the scraped wood drops in................

Keep your first couple a bit free - you won't regret it.

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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 3:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

it is clear that my response was off-topic. I did not know the word sheath, but scabbard
I understood the installation of wood on the tang. Cool
I think a little free is right even in case in question.

ciao
Maurizio
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Barry C. Hutchins





Joined: 07 Jul 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all


and Maurizio, your response had good advice for the work on the tang and hilt fitting; the musical reference was great, thank you
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maurizio D'Angelo wrote:
it is clear that my response was off-topic. I did not know the word sheath, but scabbard
I understood the installation of wood on the tang. Cool
I think a little free is right even in case in question.

ciao
Maurizio


Yeah, I sort of got that you were taking about fitting the tang and somewhat misunderstood the question. Wink Big Grin

But it was still relevant about wood and metal fitting and I'm glad you noticed your error by yourself. Cool I sort of didn't want to correct you though and was tempted to P.M. you about it if it became clear that your comment was causing confusion.

I'm glad to see that others appreciated your words and it's intent to be helpful and where/are very courteous in their responses: It's another reason why I like this site so much as most people here try to be helpful and kind to each other. Cool

Oh, as to fit of scabbard I think that ideally it should be tight enough that a sword would not fall out if held upside-down but where the sword would fall out it one gave the scabbard a light sake.

Obviously one shouldn't be holding one's sword upside-down for safety reasons. Wink

Now a scabbard might be fitted this way when first made but might get looser or tighter depending on humidity and climate so a slightly loose scabbard is better than one too tight that might become much too tight.

If a scabbard become too loose one can fix it with a piece of leather lace glued in each corner at the throat.
( I think there is an old Topic here discussing the repair or fixing of a loose scabbard and various opinions about how to fix it ...... a search on the Forum might find this Topic thread. Wink Big Grin ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I made mine so that it's a snug fit only at the top of the blade. A light tug frees that bit and there's no resistance after that when drawing the sword. The tension at the top will just retain the sword when the scabbard is inverted. Shaking the scabbard in that position will free the sword. I don't know if this is historically correct, but it feels secure and quick. No play anywhere when the sword is fully seated.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Thu 17 Sep, 2009 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any responses you get will be modern preferences, as we really have no data on historical scabbard fit.

See here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8782

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would like to add that you do not need to exert excessive worries about tolerance throughout most of the interior of a scabbard. I just try to get the fit close enough that there will not be any noticeable rattling. It is only the first inch, region nearest the mouth or insertion area being most critical, where I would focus on making the sword squeeze in with whatever degree of interference or firmness that you want. With some fuller geometries, this opening may not be able to contact anything other than the edge portions of the blade. (Opening may have to be over sized for tip portion of the blade to pass in and through the scabbard mouth.) I have found that in an all wood scabbard this fit tends to relax a little over a year after it is initially completed, unless you incorporate something slightly elastic (tightly crushed wool lining, gap in wood slats at mouth with glued laminate banding constantly squeezing them together, etc.) into the design.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 4:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Then there are various methods that can give a non-rattling or even non-falling-out-when-inverted sword without a tight fit between blade and scabbard:

1. Langets.
2. Habaki.
3. Chinese guards where the guard fits around the end of the scabbard (or you could say that the guard has a socket that the end of the scabbard fits into). I don't know what this is called. This is historical as well as common on modern Chinese swords. Sometimes this is combined with a blade collar (i.e., the Chinese equivalent of a habaki).
4. Scabbards where part of the handle fits in the scabbard mouth.

Whether or not non-rattling or non-falling-out is the point of these, or whether the main aim is to stop contact between the edge and the scabbard, I don't know. Some scabbards for swords with langets look like they'd do this last thing, but not the first two.
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