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Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon 01 Mar, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: the history of the messer and its use in europe.         Reply with quote

i hope someone can help im a reenactor and im looking to buy a messer now i know they are a german medieval weapon but when did they first appear and then disappear as i want to get one to use and were they in use across Europe or just in Germany? and what types were there im looking to get the plain straight type with the T shaped quillons mostly for 15th century stuff would this be ok and could it be used anywhere else.???
really what im asking is what is the history of this weapon?

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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Stuart Quayle




Location: Isle of Man, Great Britain
Joined: 13 May 2005

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon 01 Mar, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Messer         Reply with quote

Hi Nathan

Take a look at Nathan Robinson's review of the Grosse Messer by Cold Steel in the review section of this forum, it makes interesting reading and contains quite a bit about the history of Messer swords. Here is the link: http://www.myArmoury.com/review_cs_mess.html

The Messer is in essence a German sword, which ranged in use from between the 14th century right through to the 16th century. It comes in different blade types, straight bladed with a clipped point - Grosses Messer, or curved bladed, simitar type - Lange Messer or Kriegsmesser.

Here is a Wikipedia link all about the Grosses Messer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grosse_messer

Regards
Stuart
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Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Tue 02 Mar, 2010 1:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ok thats pretty interesting but where they used outside of germany?
and it says they were used from the 14th century on but what did they look like at these stages?

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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Stuart Quayle




Location: Isle of Man, Great Britain
Joined: 13 May 2005

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Tue 02 Mar, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Messer         Reply with quote

Hi Nathan

The German mercenaries soldiers - the Landsknechts would have used the Messer swords all over central Europe whereever they were hired. As for what the 14th century Messer would have looked like I have no idea. As a complete guess I would say very much like a simple late medieval falchion, but I might be wrong.

Regards
Stuart
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Samuel Bena




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Tue 02 Mar, 2010 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan F wrote:
ok thats pretty interesting but where they used outside of germany?
and it says they were used from the 14th century on but what did they look like at these stages?


They were definitely used outside of "German" lands , East/Central European Slavs and Hungarians used them as well , in Slavic languages the word for a Messer is "Tesák" (or iirc Tasak in Polish). Bohemian Hussites were quite fond of the weapon and often used it as a side-arm (as did the somewhat later "Black Army"/Fekete sereg of the Hungarian monarch Matthias Corvinus; furthermore many of the Black Army's soldiers were in fact Czech ex-hussite veterans.)



Pic taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fresco_sieg...lomouc.jpg

A detail from a Gothic fresco from the Czech town of Olomouc cca 1465 , the guy with the Kettle Hat has a nasty looking Tesák/Messer
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