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Kirk Lee Spencer
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 Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Dustin R. Reagan wrote: | To be brutally honest:
I like the finished piece a lot. However, the proportions of the blade seem a bit 'off' to me. If I am wrong, someone more knowledgeable (Jeroen?) please correct me, but from the photos I've seen, most broken back seaxes had a higher point-section to blade-length ratio, most had a more pronounced 'reverse taper' (become wider to the point where the back 'breaks'), and had somewhat of a 'belly' or slight curve along the edge of the blade -- especially near the tip. Furthermore, the back edge of the tip tended to have a slight concave recurve to it, while yours appears to have convex curve. For example: http://www.myArmoury.com/images/features/pic_seax07.jpg
Don't take this too harshly, it's a nice piece, and I could be off-base here!
Thanks for posting,
Dustin |
Here are some more images of similar seax...
ks
 Attachment: 10.72 KB
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[ Download ]
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
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a few more...
ks
Attachment: 95.89 KB
Attachment: 23.39 KB
Attachment: 18.6 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| K J Seago wrote: | | Quote: | | No, no antler at all, at least not on non-scandinavian saxes such as the broken back type. Scandinavian knives and saxes had bone or antler in the hilts, but in the rest of Europe for all saxes (at least the few hundreds I've seen with hilt remains) the hilt was nearly always wood, with the odd exception of horn or ivory (one small broken back sax). |
Antler was used everywhere that deer of the period existed,most of the time the ones we find now have no handle because they were all made of organic materials. |
Quite a large percentage (say roughly 1/3rd) of found saxes have wooden hilt remains attached to the tangs. And I've seen hundreds of saxes with hilt remains so far. Antler (or bone) preserves much easier then wood, so considering the high number of saxes with surviving wood remains, and non with antler remains, it's pretty safe to say that antler was not used.
As to why antler wasn't used, one reason is that it's next to impossible to find the shapes and sizes of the hilts they used on saxes in antler. A perfectly straight piece of 20cm long, oval in cross-section simply doesn't exist in antler. So you'd end up at best with something that roughly approaches the shape. So you'd have to sacrifice the functional shape for aesthetic reasons. This you'd only do if the antler look would be sufficiently more aesthetically pleasing. Mind though that the appeal towards the raw natural look of antler is a modern thing, as to us neat functionally shaped hilts frequently remind of cheap factory work, making the raw antler look appear more exclusive and ancient. What you frequently see in history, even as early as early as the first copper daggers it was much more common to avoid natural shapes, and put much effort into shaping hilts in functional shapes with a high level of finish.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Dustin R. Reagan wrote: |
To be brutally honest:
I like the finished piece a lot. However, the proportions of the blade seem a bit 'off' to me. If I am wrong, someone more knowledgeable (Jeroen?) please correct me, but from the photos I've seen, most broken back seaxes had a higher point-section to blade-length ratio, most had a more pronounced 'reverse taper' (become wider to the point where the back 'breaks'), and had somewhat of a 'belly' or slight curve along the edge of the blade -- especially near the tip. Furthermore, the back edge of the tip tended to have a slight concave recurve to it, while yours appears to have convex curve. For example: http://www.myArmoury.com/images/features/pic_seax07.jpg |
That's on the short type of broken back saxes (Honeylane type). The long sax variant (Hurbuck type) had straight cutting edges and no taper (reverse or normal). On the langsaxes, the point usually is 1/3rd of the blade length just like on the shorter variant, but there are some exceptions. For the shorter saxes, the tip length varies between 1/3rd and 3/5th of the blade length.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Dustin R. Reagan wrote: | | G Ezell wrote: |
Actually, its very close to this one in shape (apologies to Jeroen for using his image)
http://1501bc.com/files/saxes/langsax_soest.jpg
This may be the only sax I've ever seen with a perfectly straight edge, most curve up at the point, if not over the entire length....
The reverse taper seen on broken back seaxes is rare on other types, or very subtle.
The one thing that bugs me about it is the length of the handle, there is good reason to believe langsaxes had rather long handles, one example I know of has a nine inch handle of wood remaining. Otherwise, its a lovely blade with authentic construction....
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Thanks for posting this image! I wonder if there is a continental vs. isles difference at play here? |
There are some differences between the traditions of continental and british saxes, but there's also a lot of commonality. Identical broken back style lang saxes appear on the continent (Netherlands, Germany), as in the UK. But saxes disappear at the end of the 8th century on the continent, particularly lang saxes, just when the broken back style starts to replace the earlier curved back style. In the UK, saxes continue in use longer (Honeylane type up to 11-12th century), so broken back style saxes are more common in the archeological records in the UK.
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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