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David E. Farrell
Location: Evanston, IL Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 156
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Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Robert S. Haile wrote: | I see...Know of any books or websites that might display such variations? |
I'm trying to dig some up - unfortunately, the place I thought that had an entire thread on it may not be so helpful. That said, a fellow by the name of Doug Strong has compiled a pretty comprehensive list of the extant bascinets but I am not sure where it is available, though these links may help with names of pieces. Some of them are definitely on the web.
I'd try: http://www.armsandarmourforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=961
and
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=96532
if you search for reproductions, you'll basically find a handful of different 'models' being produced by various armourers, nearly all of which are based on a handful or two of the extant pieces. Some are definitely better reproductions than others. The variations shown in the highlight article are the common ones, I would say.
AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later )
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
-- King Henry, Henry V, William Shakespeare
Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused... but on a higher level.
-- Enrico Fermi
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Felix R.
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Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the bascinet is one nice type of a helmet. When you are looking for something unique or less often reproduced you might have a look at those bascinet of the Marzoli collection or from Vienna. Then there are two bascinet in the Churburg that look nice and are not very often seen, dated around 1400. So, all the mentioned pieces are dated more or less in the beginning 15th century and show features that makes them stand off from the examples of earlier decades.
What you should take into consideration is the land you want to locate yor harness.
What comes to my mind: a few years back there was one guy showing his kit which was a early 15th cent harness with a bascinet with rounded visor, he was one of those army guys out on duty while waiting for his kit and he showed some pictures when it finally arrived. Maybe anybody remembers that thread?
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Robert S. Haile
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Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys.
Well, I'd like to be identified as English. I definitely prefer rounded style visors to the pointed ones, and have no problem with sporting something unique. Has anyone ever heard of visored great helms? I would definitely be willing to look into those, depending on how much is known about them.
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Felix R.
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Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn´t the Holkham Bible show a few, but this would be much earlier than your timeframe.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Robert S. Haile wrote: | Thanks guys.
Well, I'd like to be identified as English. I definitely prefer rounded style visors to the pointed ones, and have no problem with sporting something unique. Has anyone ever heard of visored great helms? I would definitely be willing to look into those, depending on how much is known about them. |
Visored great helms are covered in our Great Helm spotlight article. Many bascinets can be seen in our Bascinet spotlight article.
Visored great helms exists only in period art and seem to be confined to the first half of the 14th century.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Robert S. Haile
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Posted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for answering my many questions and putting up with my general ignorance concerning the turn of the 14th century.
I believe I've finally come to a conclusion on my time period of choice, and found a bascinet I like, although the visor is, to my knowledge, conjecture. My kit shouldn't be out of place in the very late 14th century or the earlier part of the 15th century. The helm I'm going to have made is something like this, albeit with a few aesthetic differences, such as an overall cleaner look, with a brighter polish with brass accenting.
I don't think its design is too offensive, although it's not a documented visor. Perhaps it could earn the title of "Historically plausible?" It would make me significantly more pleased with the kit, anyway.
Come to think of it, does anyone know of a fairly priced artisan who does custom helm work?
Attachment: 20.95 KB
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Robert S. Haile
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Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I now have a bascinet with a custom visor (quite similar to the picture I posted, except in a satin finish with a brass coronet, and a more rounded dome) in the works by Maxim Suprovich of Wild Armory (I would like to thank Allan Senefelder for turning me his way, he gave me a very good deal and was very hospitable). I will likely post pictures here when I receive it.
I'm now trying to find some gauntlets for the kit...The Mercenary's Tailor has some attractive demi-gauntlets (which are listed in the description as 14th century, though I suspect this may be a typo). But I was wondering what the historicity of demi gauntlets in the early 15th century was (I can't find much information on them really), but they seem more like a late 15th century implement.).
If so, are hourglass gauntlets the only option for a kit of this epoch?
I'm also shopping for a good time appropriate sword to go with this kit. I'm extremely happy to have finally settled into a period I'm happy with.
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David E. Farrell
Location: Evanston, IL Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 156
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Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Robert S. Haile wrote: |
I'm now trying to find some gauntlets for the kit...The Mercenary's Tailor has some attractive demi-gauntlets (which are listed in the description as 14th century, though I suspect this may be a typo). But I was wondering what the historicity of demi gauntlets in the early 15th century was (I can't find much information on them really), but they seem more like a late 15th century implement.).
If so, are hourglass gauntlets the only option for a kit of this epoch?
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do you have a picture of the helmet you settled on? It may help to sort out what would go with it.
Demi-gaunts are a big no-no for pretty much the latter half of the 14th C (probably before that even) onward until gauntlets drop from use. As far as I am aware, the idea of demi-gauntlets was either for modern sport useage ala SCA or based on fragmented extant gauntlets that further study have shown to have likely had fingers at some point.
there are a couple of styles that may have been used in the first quarter of the 15th C, but hourglass gauntlets with fingers (like those on the effigy of the black prince) are far and away the most common. I personally have a set of gauntlets styled after those on the S-18 harness (basically an hourglass with an extended metacarpal plate and brigandine fingers)... but those, like the helmet on the S-18, are unique as far as I am aware.
AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later )
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
-- King Henry, Henry V, William Shakespeare
Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused... but on a higher level.
-- Enrico Fermi
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Robert S. Haile
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Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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I imagine I'm just going going to commission a nice pair of hourglass gauntlets to go with then. The helm I went with has not yet been made, but I should have a picture of it when it is completed (later this week, I believe). It's historically plausible rather than historically assured...well, the visor at least, the base of the helm is simply a round domed bascinet.
Here's a link to the helm the visor is based on. (Though I did attach to a post further up the page.)
http://www.wassonartistry.com/images/armor/helmets/IMG_0977.JPG
It's conjecture, though not ridiculous, and seems to be based on a visor that might be found on a great bascinet. I'm not terribly upset by this, and I doubt anyone else will be too bothered. I'm more into the martial end of things than the reenacting end, and I greatly preferred the look of this visor to the documented pigface and klappvisors.
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David E. Farrell
Location: Evanston, IL Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 156
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Posted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I recall seeing helmets like that in some paintings, but for the life of me I can't remember where or when they were from. Do you have body armour yet, or are you still settling on that?
AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later )
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
-- King Henry, Henry V, William Shakespeare
Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused... but on a higher level.
-- Enrico Fermi
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Robert S. Haile
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Posted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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I've seen some similar in the illuminated painting from the Tristan Romance ca. 15th century. They may actually be frog helms in the picture though, which I believe is more likely judging by the time period. A few of the helms on the left however look sort of similar.
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/14...7B01C9.jpg
I don't have my all of my armor yet, but I'm getting most of it done by the Merc. Tailor. I currently have a pair of arms with integral spaulders being built; these to be exact.
http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/images/14th...%20ext.jpg
I'm still deciding on what kind of torso armor to go with, maybe something with a slightly wasp waisted look, since I'm lean enough to do that currently.
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