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Elling Polden
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 Posted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 2:41 am Post subject: |
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The Henry lever action rifle (manefactured by Winchester, and later rebranded as such) saw use in the civil war, but was never officially adopted.
The Spencer carabine was, however, and often gave Union cavalry a firepower advantage.
I am not sure if the winchester was adopted for military scervice after the civil war, though....
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: |
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The Turks used lever action Winshesters in .44 Henry rimfire in battle against the Russians.
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Turkey/TurkWin.htm
Copy/pasted from the above source:
| Quote: | | " GENERALLY: It is generally conceded that Turkey was able to purchase sufficient numbers of M1866 Winchester rifles and carbines to play a decisive role in delaying, for almost half a year the reapeated major assaults of the combined Russo-Roumanian Armies at the Battle of Plevna (1877). This was the first major military engagement in which the use of repeating firearms had a substantial influence on it's battles and in which extraordinarily heavy casualties were repeatedly inflicted. The Turks engaged the charging Russians at long range with their M1872 Peabody-Martini rifles (long range, powerful and flat trajectory for its day). The Russians were armed with the already obsolete Krnka rifles and only a limited number of Berdan I and Berdan II rifles. When the Russians closed to within 200 yeards, the Turks switched arms and engaged them with the repeating Winchesters and cut them to ribbons. " |
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Anthony Riopel
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| Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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The Henry repeating rifle was EXTREMELY popular in the civil war, with officers often purchasing them for their units. The same with the Spencer, both of which are lever action.
Be wary the wrath of a patient man.
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Elling,
Lever action Winchesters were never issued to troopers in the US army. The Model 1876 in .45-.75 caliber
was issued to the RCMP and you can find lots of pictures of Mounties with them. There were however, some
Model 1892 in .30-.30 caliber issued to US personel during WWII, Navy I believe, who were to protect stands of
timber and other lumber resources. Navy? Woods? Go figure.
Doug Gentner
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Wed 24 Jun, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Spencer carbine impressed everyone who shot it -- including President Lincoln himself. The Spencer and Henry both impressed Confederate troops, who referred to the lever actions as "those damn Yankee guns you load on Sunday and shoot all week".
The Spencer did become standard issue to the Cavalry. After the Civil War, however, the Spencer carbine was replaced -- by the single-shot Springfield "Trapdoor" Carbine -- much to the consternation of the troops. This move was, of course, highly controversial and the reasons for it are debated to this day -- including whether the 7th Cavalry would have fared better at the Battle of the Little Bighorn armed with Spencers rather than the Springfields they were stuck with, or not....
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Rodolfo Martínez
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jun, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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"those damn Yankee guns you load on Sunday and shoot all week"
XD
I don´t know how such cavalry worked, but i asked since I imagine tthat since cavalry tend to be more wealthy they could purchase lever action guns and other stuff.
Maybe this is a bit off topic but,
Do you know if they used any protective garments? (Like Headgear or any plate)
Do you know when soldiers dropped their military greatcoats? (The caped)
What about civilian ones?
Do you know if lever rifles could be used as bayonets too?
Thanks a lot for your answers.[/code]
¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Joel Minturn
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jun, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
Do you know if they used any protective garments? (Like Headgear or any plate)
Do you know when soldiers dropped their military greatcoats? (The caped)
Do you know if lever rifles could be used as bayonets too? |
I don't think they used any protective gear. There may have been a few experimental pieces but nothing that was widely used or even heard about.
When did they drop the greatcoat? Usually during a long march in the summer 
I haven't seen any pictures of lever rifles with bayonets.
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Elling Polden
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jun, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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The lever action carabines where civilian designs, and thus didn't have bayonets.
As for protective gear, it was generaly not worn, having been (with the exception of curassier cavalry) discarded in the 1600s.
Helmets where not used either; Metal helmets where reintroduced around 1900.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jun, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
Do you know if lever rifles could be used as bayonets too?
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There were "Musket" variations of some lever-action rifles; These were intended for military sales and could mount bayonets. I know for certain that there was a "rifle/musket" version of the Spencer, I believe both Winchester and maybe Marlin turned some out, as well. But these are very rare, not having any military contracts (domestic or foreign) awarded (IIRC, of course)...
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Lin Robinson
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| Posted: Sat 27 Jun, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Most cavalry rifles used in the US in the 19th C. did not have provision for bayonet attachment. The idea was to fight either on horseback with revolvers and saber or dismount to fight with carbines. Cavalry were used as strike forces for sure, but during the Civil War their primary roles were reconnaisance, guarding flanks and mounting the occasional charge once their infantry had gained the upper hand. There were only a couple of pitched battles involving cavalry exclusively during the war.
Winchester and Spencer did make "musket length" rifles but neither were used extensively.
Lin Robinson
"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Sun 05 Jul, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: | | I don´t know how such cavalry worked, but i asked since I imagine tthat since cavalry tend to be more wealthy they could purchase lever action guns and other stuff. |
Try this overview: http://www.battlefieldanomalies.com/us_cavalr...rience.htm
| Quote: | | Do you know if they used any protective garments? (Like Headgear or any plate) |
Many European cavalry units used leather shakos and helmets during the later part of the 19th century. The actual protective value of such helmets is (and was) somewhat in doubt, though, not the least because the quality of the leather and its treatment was often somewhat uneven--and of course a leather helmet doesn't even begin to compare to the level of protection provided by a real iron or steel helmet!
| Quote: | | Do you know when soldiers dropped their military greatcoats? (The caped) |
Depending on your definition of "when," the answer could be "when the weather wasn't so cold" or "never." Many military forces around the world still have greatcoats as standard-issue items.
| Quote: | | What about civilian ones? |
As I said in your other "greatcoat" thread, greatcoats don't seem to have ever been a particularly important civilian fashion item, although some civilian overcoats were essentially constructed in an identical or very similar manner to military greatcoats. It's semantics, I know, but that's what you get from fashion history. Of course, civilian overcoats are still worn today, as will become blindingly obvious when you check out photographs of, say, New York or Boston or Paris in winter.
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