Help Me With a Type XIV Project -- myArmoury.com

Joe Fults · Posted: Mon 15 Jun, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject:

I mentioned in my reply that I do not have this sword anymore. Its been traded or sold away some time ago (don't remember which). Don't remember who it went to. Worried

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 16 Jul, 2009 7:58 am Post subject:

Two interesting images of a much later period (ca. 1510):

Julien M · Posted: Thu 16 Jul, 2009 8:36 am Post subject:

Those two last pictures look more like type XVI to me (slender blades)...still nice though

Luka Borscak · Posted: Thu 16 Jul, 2009 8:36 am Post subject:

This second one looks XVIa to me... Two handed grip, quite long blade...

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 16 Jul, 2009 8:48 am Post subject:

Yeah...XVI sounds right. The thing is, the Windlass "Type XIV" has the pronounced diamond section in it's lower third more typical of XVI...but so does the Musee de L'Armee XIV. Confused

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Aug, 2009 7:06 am Post subject:

And Now For Something Completely Different:

I'm in the middle of my Type XIV project. The grip core is done, I've cut the peen block and I'm now reshaping the cross (each arm tapers down to octagonal section). Last night my eye happened to fall on the Windlass "Saxon" guard left over from my last project. It has design problems and is generally too massive to be historically appropriate. It was badly out of proportion to the narrow blade on which it was mounted. Still, I couldn't help but try it and its grip on the Type XIV blade just for kicks (see the Frankensword below). You know, you could do worse with a fantasy sword design (many have). The guard doesn't overpower this broad blade, aesthetically. You'd have to take a couple of inches of blade for the guard to fit properly and create enough tang for a pommel (there's only about .25" of tang in the pommel as shown here) but it could be done. Puts me in mind (albeit vaguely) of some late 16th/early 17th c. Continental swords. It actually doesn't feel too bad, either.

Don't worry, though. I'm proceeding with my traditional Type XIV project. Big Grin

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 07 Aug, 2009 7:37 am Post subject:

OK--here are the serious in-progress photos. What you're seeing (or not seeing) here:

• The cross is only about half-finished, but you can see what I'm doing--squaring-off the cross ends (which originally terminated in a strange-looking angle,) faceting the arms to octagonal section, removing the original escutcheon section, tapering it toward the blade and re-doing the center-line (hollow-grinding to define the center line will follow).

• The pommel originally had a somewhat squared-off base, so I'm in the process of reshaping that area to make the pommel more round.

• A new grip more like the shape and section of the Musee de l'Armee sword.

• The original Windlass grip, which I would rate as a good and improvable (as opposed to lousy and un-salvageable, as in most cases). The section is appropriate, but it's too bulky. It can be altered in-place if you want to keep it and don't want to disassemble the sword. I wanted to strip the piece and make a new grip so I removed the original grip by splitting it with a chisel. You can get some idea of the violence required to remove it! The black stuff inside the old grip is epoxy. The same glue was in the pommel and cross, and although that assembly felt solid, it didn't take more than a couple of blows with a rubber mallet to break the bond, leaving the typically ill-fitting cross and pommel rattling. Keep that in mind if you get one of these for use with a pell, etc. The new grip core (about 3/4 finished--needs refinement of the section) looks small by comparison, but remember that it will have a leather wrap and possibly a cord-wrapped core. Windlass grips tend to be too bulky, which makes the swords feel awkward and insecure in my hand.

• My somewhat battered and squashed clay model of the peen block atop the chunk of steel that will become the final version.

I'm doing all of this work with the sword disassembled, of course. I slapped it together for these photos just to give a better idea of proportions.

Julien M · Posted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 2:46 am Post subject:

Oh my...great start Sean! And your are toying with two erbach swords at the same time too (I almost went for that one as well, but gave it up on reports of the blade being too flexible)

The new and slender grip does a lot to improve the overall look of the sword already. After all, types XIV have a lot of blade width at the base, and shrinking the grip enhances that a great deal.

How are you planning to reassemble the sword though? I see that you are to add a peen block on the top of the pommel so you'll need more tang lenght for that. Will you get the extra lenght from the base of the blade or will you shorten the grip (that seems unlikely since it isn't big to start with)?

This sword is going to be the first one that I plan to dismount even though it is peened. I does worry me a bit (the "safe and sound" reassembling does). So you shattered the grip, used a hammer to make the pommel slide down on the tang? Then I suppose you had to reshape the end of the tang to be able to take pommel and cross out (does that requiere a blowtorch at this stage?).

can't wait to start on this one too Happy

Looking forward to see more!

cheers,

J

Felix R. · Posted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 3:42 am Post subject:

I am very keen in seeing the finished piece Sean.

@ Julien
I just disassembled my DT 5143 and had just to file of a little bit of the excess of the peened tang and was then able to hammer the pommel down. So it was quite easy in that case, but the peen was nearly flush with the pommel.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 8:54 am Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 17 Aug, 2009 7:26 am Post subject:

Almost finished. I decided to blue the furniture and polish it back to a pearly gray. I might not keep it this dark for the finished piece, but I think it's looking pretty nice.I know it's not everybody's taste. I'm not even sure that weapons were blued in this period. I just wanted something to help distinguish this sword from its former self and help it stand out in a crowd.

This is just a test assembly shown here. I haven't even done any detail work on the grip yet. Still have to countersink the peen block and finish the blade, too. Since the pommel hole is round the pommel would want to turn. JB Weld will stop that, as will some strategically placed brass shims. Final assembly will be straight and tight. Big Grin

Bluing is a bit tricky with a peened tang. I blued the block knowing that I'll have to re-blue the top in place, along with the peen.

Notice that the cross is very slightly asymmetrical (one arm dips slightly lower). This is original to the piece and I decided not to correct it. I find the less-than-machine-perfect look to be a bit more authentic-looking.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 31 Aug, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject:

I finished this a couple of weeks ago but hadn't had the chance to post the results. A few quick shots:

Julien M · Posted: Mon 31 Aug, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject:

Hi Sean,

Very nice job as usual. I really love the way you dealt with the pommel, the addition of the peen block does add character to the sword, and the peen is spotless (hotpeened? cold peen? Does the hole in the pommel needs to be larger at the top (like a funnel) so that when peening the tang it spreads inside and secure the all thing even more? How much of the tang needs to protude on the top to be sure to secures the assembly safely? How much material can you allow yourself to sand to finish thing up without compromising the all thing?? (geee that's a lot of questions in one row...how about a new workbench article!! Happy

I'm a bit less fond of the cross (but that's because I really dislike the original to start with, and also because the previous one you made was stunning), but to my mind adding a 4 new angles at the tip of the quillons tends to make the overall shape of the cross a bit harder to figure out.

Great stuff nonetheless Happy

Cheers,

J

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 31 Aug, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject:

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

The project turned out great, Sean! The sword is beautiful!

Since it was mentioned as part of this thread, I found the below Type XIV sword so interesting, I thought I would bump this thread with these little discoveries for sale from Hank Reinhart's collection. I did not know that Del Tin or MRL ever did a version of this interesting Type XIV:

http://www.hankreinhardt.com/Sale/Swords/Swords%20240.htm - Fair conditon

http://www.hankreinhardt.com/Sale/Swords/Swords%20047.htm - Good condition

Scott Kowalski · Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom

I agree with Jonathan that the project came out great Sean!

On a side note, I did not know that anyone had made a version of the sword I posted either. It is one that I am looking to have made as a custom.

Scott