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Joel Chesser
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 Posted: Mon 27 Apr, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Kirk, as always, very impressive and inspirational. You should be very proud.
..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."
- Luke 22:36
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 27 Apr, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Impressive and almost exhausting just reading all the detailed steps that went into the work much less than I imagine doing all the work.  The results are sure worth it and I don't think you could do this much if you didn't enjoy the process of doing the work as well as discovering along the way what works and what doesn't !
True artistry. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Colt Reeves
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| Posted: Mon 27 Apr, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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The sheer awesomeness of some members of this board makes me feel rather inferior. 
A few questions/comments:
1. You mention it being a cheap sword. Is it functional, or just for show?
2. I'm kind of curious about the etching. Could you better explain what you used and where you got it from? How does it compare to how they did it historically? Does the metal being that of a cheap sword matter in this case?
3. You actually wore down parts of it to look like it spent time riding on a soldier's hip?!?!? Now that's an historian. I salute you and your sword.
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Mon 27 Apr, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Kirk,
Again an enjoyable documentary about reworking a sword. Especially pleasing is the whole thing's done so no
waiting to see the final result. Unlike the Albion bronze tho', this one just didn't look worth making the effort yet by
dint of your considerable work that's all changed. I don't mean to jump the gun here, but what's the next project?
No pressure..........
All Best,
Doug Gentner
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Nathan M Wuorio
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| Posted: Mon 27 Apr, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Very, VERY nice! I love the etching on the blade. It doesn't even look like its original form. A vast improvement.
Nathan.
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Bennison N
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| Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
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That's cool... Really cool.
I have a Gladius here I don't like, want to have another go?
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius
अजयखड्गधारी
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Julien M
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| Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for the quick walkthrough and pictures Kirk. That's more than I was bargaining for 
I might get back to you when actually trying this.
Cheers,
J
ps: too bad none of my teachers in high school nor in university ever brought a gladius nor any other sword to class for that matter...I bet your students must be quiet fascinated when you pass that around
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | ...and I don't think you could do this much if you didn't enjoy the process of doing the work as well as discovering along the way what works and what doesn't !
True artistry. |
Thanks Joel and Jean for the kind words.
You are right Jean, I teach for a living but I come from a family that has always worked with their hands. So it must be in the genes... it is a kind of therapy I guess.
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Colt Reeves wrote: | ...makes me feel rather inferior.
A few questions/comments:
1. You mention it being a cheap sword. Is it functional, or just for show?
2. I'm kind of curious about the etching. Could you better explain what you used and where you got it from? How does it compare to how they did it historically? Does the metal being that of a cheap sword matter in this case?
3. You actually wore down parts of it to look like it spent time riding on a soldier's hip?!?!? Now that's an historian. I salute you and your sword. |
Hey Colt...
Thanks...
Don't feel inferior... We are all getting less inferior as we learn. And what I described was what worked, I didn't spend time talking about the mistakes. (Well maybe about the wrong wood and the old epoxy... however there were many other set backs.)
As for your questions:
1. Yes it is a really cheap sword. I think it cost about $100, but I saw it on ebay for about $80. The blade is not steel but some kind of zinc alloy pot metal. So I guess it was not built to be functional, however it would probably hurt if you hit somebody with it.
2. The etchant is ferric chloride and it is used to etch circuit boards, among other things. You can usually get it at Radio Shack. The resist (substance that keeps the ferric chloride from cutting certain areas) I used was just a sharpie. You can by other resist pens of the internet, but I try to use things around the house. Normally the resist is put on the metal and then it is dipped in a tube or tank of warm ferric chloride for 15 or 20 minutes. This technique of using scotch tape and just allowing the etchant to bead up in the area between is something I just made up.
I should have made it clearer in the description that historically the pattern was not made by etching (although I have seen one spear point that has an etched or engraved chevron pattern that may be mimicking pattern welding. Historically the pattern was produced by taking strips of iron and steely iron and welding them together and then twisting (torsion) to and then welding these bars (billets) side by side into the core of the blade. When the fuller is cut into these twisted rods the pattern appears. To achieve topography (high and low areas) between the iron and steely iron, they blade may have been etched over all. Not sure what they would use... maybe vinegar.
I believe the cheap metal did etch faster. I have since experimented on hardened steel and it takes about 15 minutes rather than 5 minutes of exposure to get topography on the surface.
3. So much of the wear on "antiqued" replicas is just random marks. The idea is to imagine how the sword would wear as it is being used and worn. It doesn't show up in the pictures but there are also a few nicks in the blade at several points near the COP. (The fist was produced by my daughter when she knocked over a plate of damascus I was using for another project and if well against the blade. I added the other so it looked intensional.)
If there is anything more specific about the etch, let me know and I will try to answer.
And welcome to the forum. It is good to have you here!
take care
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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David McElrea
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| Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Kirk,
A beautiful job, as always. Could you say a bit more about how you managed to reshape the blade, particularly the median ridge? You've done an incredibly neat job of it. What grinding tools did you use and how did you manage to produce such neat lines?
Thanks,
David
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Douglas G. wrote: |
...Unlike the Albion bronze tho', this one just didn't look worth making the effort yet by
dint of your considerable work that's all changed. I don't mean to jump the gun here, but what's the next project?
No pressure..........
All Best,
Doug Gentner |
Hey Doug...
Thanks man 
I have a couple of nice custom swords that I would not touch... (well probably not.) However, I have the tendency to look at a sword as raw material. So most of the time the swords I work with do not seem to look worth making the effort.... and most of the time, by the time I have finished fixing all the mistakes it is "a lot" of time and effort.
Here are some thoughts that might help make more sense of it:
1. As I said earlier, this is sort of "hands-on" therapy to me.
2. I like to see something that no one wants become something that someone wants--seeing what something could be, rather that what it is at its lowest. I guess that's the testimony of my Christian faith so it naturally spills out in the creative urge. This particular sword did not deserve the time in terms of its worth on the market... but it was my first sword so it held a special place to me. I knew I would keep it, so I wanted to make it into something better.
3. More to the point, with four kids at home and one in college... not a whole lot of extra money.  I do have a Barta, but I saved my pennies for two years to get that beauty. And a Barta is really an investment and a good investment with his prices at that time.
4. I am working on a very diverse collection that shows the progression in the development of the sword. And so, putting each sword together myself gives me control over all the details. And it is often the details that show how each component evolved from one form to another.
As for my next project... That is a good question. My target is to try and finish the nice early English Baskethilt ElJay made for me with a beautiful Cervenka Swiss saber blade... sometime this summer... I hope. I am also in the process of finishing the gorgeous Mindelheim sword that Neil Burridge made for me awhile back. Then beyond that... redoing the single edge viking... a German War Knife, a seax and another Burridge creation... the graceful Limehouse leafblade.
Oh and there are others...
take care my friend.
ks
 Attachment: 149.39 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Wed 29 Apr, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| David McElrea wrote: |
...Could you say a bit more about how you managed to reshape the blade, particularly the median ridge? You've done an incredibly neat job of it. What grinding tools did you use and how did you manage to produce such neat lines?
Thanks,
David |
Hi David...
Thanks so much for the compliments.
On the grinding of the blade... The first step was to measure the width of the blade from guard to tip about every few inches and mark the exact center. Then I took a sharpie and connected the dots to form a line that represents the median ridge. The idea is to keep this line throughout the whole process. I began grinding by placing my angle grinder in the vise on my work bench. The grinder has a really coarse sanding pad of overlapping layers. Then holding the sword tightly, I allowed the edges to pass over the rotating disc very lightly to try and quickly take down material to remove the cast-in grooves in the blade surface. I found that this didn't work very well... mainly because the blade was too soft and the angle grinder took off too much material too quickly.
(I have used this set-up with hardened blades and it works well for major reshaping... the main concerns are to take it slow and allow the blade to cool down after just a few passes, so that the heat treatment is retained. Also stop before you get to the edge and the tip, because these areas will heat up very quickly... do these areas with dremel grinders and then files.)
So, on shaping the Roman Gladius blade, I used dremel grinders, files and very coarse sand paper. I began with the dremel tool and put about three or four reinforced cut-off wheels, stacked one on top the other. This gave a wide, very abrasive surface. I used this to take down the surface beyond the depth of the grooves in very long strokes over the surface... long strokes to keep from digging holes. Eventually I was able to take the grooves completely out. This gave the blade a dual fuller look. Using a coarse bastard mill file I cut the edge bevels to a relatively flat surface.
To generate a little distal taper and then produce the reinforced tip in profile, I took the mill file and cut the ridge down to give a nice distal taper to about 80% down the blade and then left the tip section at maximum thickness to produce the reinforced tip. I took a caliper and measured the thickness of the blade along the ridge to assure that it was a relatively linear taper. Where there was once a median ridge, there was now a flat topped median "mesa". But it had the correct distal taper. So I drew the center line again with the sharpie in the same way and used the stacked cut-off discs and reshaped the "mesa" into a ridge again.
Using the calipers I measured the flats to find areas that were thicker. I would set the caliper as a particular thickness and move it along the flats where it would "stick" where the blade was thicker I would put a line with a sharpie. With the stack of cut-off wheels I lowered the areas with the marks. Once these high areas were lowered, I would place my thumb on the under side of the blade flat, and my forefinger in the upper side and run it up and down the blade. You can feel the highs and lows that cannot be seen. This is quicker than the calipers. Where it is high, I would place a marks and grind them lower. Once the whole flats felt relatively smooth I took the mill file and filed the flats to an dull "armoury sharpened" edge (the edge on the replica was about 2mm thick).
I could not use the mill file near the median ridge... so to smooth this area I took some very coarse sandpaper (I found some extremely coarse white sandpaper in the paint department of Home Depot that works really well). I tore off a square, folded it over and ran the straight edge of the fold right along the ridge line, pushing with my thumb to cut deeply into the metal. I fold the sandpaper to alow the thumb a good purchase on the sandpaper... too good actually... I had to wrap my thumb in tape to reduce the abrasion on my thumb. When the paper became dull just turn it over, when this side gets dull, fold it again. I did this until I had a nice smooth even flat surface.
After all the etching work was done, I simply burnished the blade with a well used piece of very fine sandpaper and steelwool.
Hope this helps... If you have a more specific question, please ask.
take care
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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David McElrea
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| Posted: Wed 29 Apr, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kirk,
Thank you so much for that. That's exactly what I was after. Last fall I took my own first sword, an old Kris Cutlery bastard sword (from 1989), and began a long process of turning it into an Iron Age Irish short sword. I've been wanting to create a median ridge with shallow fullering, similar to that on the Lisnacrogher sword, but wasn't too sure how to get it right (having tried with a spearhead with less than perfect results).
You inspire and educate.
Blessings,
David
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This is a standard topic